Alcoholics Anonymous World Services Sued By Parents of Murder Victim Karla Brada

Alcoholics Anonymous World Services and Santa Clarita Alcoholics Anonymous has been sued by the parents of murder victim Karla Brada.

Parents Accuse AA of Harboring a Predator

Grieving parents say in court that their daughter was murdered by her sociopathic addict boyfriend because Alcoholics Anonymous concealed his history of domestic violence.

”  The Mendezes say that AA showed a “reckless disregard for, and deliberate indifference … to the safety and security of victims attending AA meetings who are repeatedly preyed on at these meetings by financial, violent, and sexual predators like Earle.” AA has known for years that meetings “are repeatedly used by financial, sexual, and violent predators as a means to locate victims,” according to the lawsuit in Superior Court.
But nevertheless the organization has no “specific policies and guidelines concerning conduct of so-called ‘sponsors'” and does little to supervise them.”

ERIC ALLEN EARLE

LOS ANGELES (CN) – Grieving parents say in court that their daughter was murdered by her sociopathic addict boyfriend because Alcoholics Anonymous concealed his history of domestic violence.  Eric Allen Earle allegedly strangled 31-year-old Karla Brada to death on Aug. 31, 2011, after Brada asked him to move out of her condo in Santa Clarita. After the murder, Earle reportedly spent the night sleeping next to Brada and called the authorities when he found her unresponsive in the morning.

Brada’s parents, Hector Mendez and Jaroslava Mendez, say Earle had been jailed for beating Brada just before the murder.  His friends, Patrick and Joanne Frye, allegedly coerced Brada into bailing him out.  Brada reportedly dropped the charges against Earle, and authorities were unable to prosecute him, according to the Los Angeles Times.
The Mendezes say that the Frys conspired “to aid and assist Earle in financially and physically abusing” and “ultimately murdering” Brada.

 

They also sued two attorneys who allegedly represented the Earle, saying those individuals and the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department knew of Earle’s violent past and could have prevented their daughter’s untimely death. Brada “suffered horribly” before she died, according to the complaint. An autopsy report allegedly revealed that Brada had more than 30 cuts and bruises on her body.   Patrick Fry and Earle may have done jail time together, Fry sponsored Earle at the Santa Clarita AA that they both attended, according to the complaint.

 

“Fry immediately violated the few rules AA has by serving as a ‘sponsor’ for a female, Karla,” the 26-page complaint states. “He also violated an AA rule by meeting at the same time with both Earle and Karla right at the time that Earle had severely beaten Karla and had been arrested for possible domestic violence.”  The Mendezes say that AA showed a “reckless disregard for, and deliberate indifference … to the safety and security of victims attending AA meetings who are repeatedly preyed on at these meetings by financial, violent, and sexual predators like Earle.”

AA has known for years that meetings “are repeatedly used by financial, sexual, and violent predators as a means to locate victims,” according to the lawsuit in Superior Court.
But nevertheless the organization has no “specific policies and guidelines concerning conduct of so-called ‘sponsors'” and does little to supervise them.   Earle was formally charged for the murder of Brada in January 2011, almost three months after the autopsy report, the Mendezes say.
“AA is so lax that as soon as Earle murdered Karla he took up with another woman whom he met at AA, [nonparty] Amy Porter (‘Porter’) who is now being financially exploited by Earle,” the complaint states. “Porter is financing Earle’s legal defense on the charge of Karla’s murder. Earle becomes quickly ‘engaged’ with his victims and proposes marriage although on information and belief he has never obtained a judgment of dissolution from his wife.”
After Brada’s death, attorney Carey Curuso used $2,000 Brada had paid the lawyer to defend Earle against charges that he kicked in a window on a sheriff’s patrol car, the parents say.
The Mendezes sued Earle; the Frys; Curoso; Santa Clarita Alcoholics Anonymous; Alcoholics Anonymous World Services; the County of Los Angeles; and detectives Eduardo Hernandez, Juan Carrillo, Raymond Lugo and Joe Ramirez.  David Kestenbaum, an attorney who represented Earle against domestic violence charges against Brada, is also named as a defendant. The couple seeks punitive damages for wrongful death, conversion of money and property, professional negligence, violation of equal protection rights under the 14th Amendment, Monell violation, and Bane Act violation.

They are represented by Patricia Barry.
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services declined to comment.

KARLA BRADA

Article-

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/28/50771.htm

176 thoughts on “Alcoholics Anonymous World Services Sued By Parents of Murder Victim Karla Brada

    • No it hasn’t. AA has a 5% success rate. That means a 95% failure rate. Plus… like you said…. the program is focused for men and men only. It’s the most sexist literature I have seen since 1960.

  1. Pingback: The Murder of Karla Mendez Brada | Sword and Scale™

  2. I have been a member of AA for over 17 years and stayed sober because of that program. AA has given me life and purpose by following the 12 steps of the program. Now I am a valuable member of society. AA endorses “love and tolerance” which is written in the big book. AA does not endorse rage. This is a sad story and I feel horrible for the Mendez family. AA has one purpose and that is to help the Alcoholic. It is stated at every meeting during the preamble that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. However, AA could add to the preamble of Alcoholics Anonymous at each meeting a reinforcing phrase such as “AA does not condone any relationships other that helpful sponsorships and alerts members that most attendees are criminals”. What? Most attendees are criminals? Yes, even Karla Brada had illegal substances in her body when she died. Apparently she had meth and methadone in her system when she died according to the autopsy. (I’m sorry Karla I mean no disrespect). I didn’t end up at AA because I ran a red light or yelled at someone. I ended up there and most others ended up at AA because we experienced incomprehensible demoralization which looks different to each of us. My point is that it would be hard to put us in different classifications as most of us were not law abiding. The second step identifies that we were all insane and needed to be restored to sanity. That should have warned her about the members yet maybe she needed it clearer to her that AA is full of black sheep. (Not a racial slur). AA would have to develop – or the courts would have to develop – some sort of classification for meetings. The meeting schedules already show several classifications such as “Spanish Speaking”, and “Women only” etc. The new classification would be “Court Appointed”. When someone calls the hotline for help that person could be asked some key questions and directed to an appropriate meeting. The problem with that is that some people will lie. I admire the Mendez family and their fight for justice. This has taught me that I need to be more vigilant with the women members who are early in sobriety by taking them aside and explaining the harsh realities of this program. That much I can do. I want to thank the Mendez family for bring this topic to the light. There is always room to grow and/or change and that includes Alcoholics Anonymous.

  3. 1. Alcoholism is in-fact a disease. Recent studies show the mechanism of how the brain (all of our brains) has both stop and go decision making processes. For normal, non-addicted brains, we get the trigger to over indulge, but at the same time we get the signal to stop in time to process it and actually stop. Addicted brains don’t get the stop signal in time to react. They stay in the “go” mode.

    When you think about any addictive behavior that people can’t seem to stop, be it over-eating, sex, pornography, smoking, drinking, gambling, drugs, video gaming, and a myriad of others; this mechanism seems to at play.

    On one hand, we know logically, morally, ethically, and legally what is right and wrong and what behaviors place us at risk of early death, illness, broken families, loneliness, and bankruptcy, but on the other hand, if they don’t get the “stop” signal, they will always step over the line into the dark side and suffer the consequences over and over again.

    2. People (mostly women) who have been victimized by a violent abuser and allow it to continue is another mental illness related to PTSD. On one hand they know they must escape the violence and on the other hand they can’t escape the fear that at any moment the nightmare will continue. While most of us would get away and inform everyone we could and arm ourselves for the next encounter, some people just can’t do it. In this case, she bails him out after a beating on the urging of others who were also threatening her. WOW.

    To argue that it was her choice to stay involved with her killer is like saying it’s the psychopaths choice to be a good guy or an insane freak. It really is not a choice for any of these people on either side. They suffer mental illnesses and one plays predator and one plays the prey. The victims should be saved and the predator’s should be executed and removed from the gene pool.

  4. This story is a tragedy. The lawsuit filed by the Parent and the attorney’s who represent them are more of a tragedy for holding Alcoholics Anonymous responsible is absolutely sickening. Everyone in this world has choices. Karla had choices too. Yes, she got sucked in by a predator and it took her life. However, don’t forget that she paid $8,000 to bail him out of jail two (2) weeks before he killed her. SHE could have done a background check on him. Did she? No. She could have followed the suggestion to stay out of a relationship for the first year of sobriety. Did she? No. When is society going to start taking responsibility for themselves! We all sit by predators everywhere we go…restaurants, bars, church. Should we have our church do a background check before anyone steps foot in a church service? In a restaurant? This is ridiculous. AA’s 12 steps have saved millions of lives and don’t forget folks, bad people are everywhere. It is my responsibility to do my homework before I move someone into my home I hardly know. Really? I know, let’s just absolve Karla from all responsibility and SUE, SUE, SUE. This blame game makes me sick. Stand up and be accountable for your choices, good and bad!

    • You want everyone else to be held accountable except AA. Why should AA be absolved of any responsibility? Yes other organizations including Alateen have safety guidelines and do background checks http://www.al-anon.org/members/pdf/guidelines/G34.pdf

      Alateen does it why should AA or any other 12 step organization not follow suit?

      Would you like your babysitter to be a sex offender? Should there be to laws to protect people?

    • Synonyms for ridiculous: laughable, absurd, funny, hilarious, risible, amusing, farcical, silly, ludicrous………..
      Try telling that to the parents of Ms. Karla –
      Yes bad people are everywhere but dangerous people conglomerate with people who are genuinely vulnerable and need help. Moreover, you are told that “your best thinking got you there”. Please, you people help the vulnerable only when it’s convenient for you.
      Absolve you say? Ms. Karla was exculpated with her own life –
      Why are you people so against safety guidlines in the rooms of AA.? What ABSOLVES AA from not considering this possibility. It’s not a rule, it’s not something that should keep people out. It’s called having compassion for the Millions and Millions you pupport AA has “saved” (there is strong evidence to suggest otherwise).
      Whatever the outcome may be, AA’s GSO will have to answer this question and sometimes it takes someon to SUE, SUE, SUE to make someone or something held ACCOUNTABLE.

      Please go do a fourth and fifth (or tenth step – depending how far along you are in the steps) with your sponsor over this – promptly admit you are wrong to victim blame – and don’t get drunk over your ‘sickness’. Stay spiritual…………….

    • Amen to this response. AA teaches all of us, responsibility, accountability, love and service, through our 12 Steps with strong guidance from a sponsor with this experience. 16 years later, AA is not easy but it’s a simple program for complicated people. Get real people, especially you codependent ‘normies’ and do your own research and homework before you go accusing AA of any wrongdoing!

  5. Obviously the disease of alcoholism is not understood! The parents would certainly benefit from some Al-Anon meetings!
    This story just sickens me! They are just as sick

    • Maybe Sheri that is because alcoholism is NOT a disease in the first place. You have been hoodwinked into thinking it is an incurable disease when it is NOT! People recover from alcoholism and move on with their lives every single day.

      Alanon is just another Bill W cult created by his wife, to suck in the whole family into thinking it is a ” family disease” and that the whole family needs meetings for life to find salvation.

      True addiction impacts an entire family, but this does not mean it is the family members fault, and they need to feel they are to blame.

      Karla Brada parents are incredibly loving people who loved their daughter immensely. They are right on target to go after the organization that creates these unsafe environments while presenting it is a safe place for women, when it is clearly not.

      Who in their right mind would invite a man who struck his own mother, tried to kill his x wife etc and put them with a group of women from a private rehab? No One in their RIGHT mind would do such a thing when they have zero safety guidelines etc.

      I applaud the efforts of Karla Brada’s parents and so glad the jury saw past Eric Earle’s AA induced narcissistic grand standing on the stand.

      • I’m not sure what makes you such an expert on the disease of Alcoholism. It has been recognized as a disease since the 40s by the AMA. Am I excusing someone elses violent behavior ? No I have been a member of the fellowship of AA for 20 years. I do know we have no rules and yes no one is judged in the rooms of AA.
        The lawsuit will fail. You can not blame a nonprofit organization that has no outside affiliations for the behavior of a person that no one other then that persons sponsor knows about.
        I feel badly for the young woman for making poor choices I feel badly for her family. I feel worse for those as your self that attacks an organization that has helped Millions of people asking for nothing in return.

    • Sick!? Yes they are sick. Sick with grief. Sick from seeing their child killed by a man who was hiding behind this so called “dis-ease” of alcoholism. Sick from the flippant remarks like the one you just posted. What will alanon do for them? Tell them to “detach with love”? Guess what, they can’t! They bought into the possibility that aa – the good people in aa – could possibly help her, guide her and Ms. Jaro even said in the documentary that they “would love him” for that possibility. Guess what? This sick and DANGEROUS psyco/sociopath killed her!!!!!!!! How sick is that?
      I’ve had it with how vehemently condescedning you steppers can be! I really refrained from posting a comment to you – it’s a waste of good cyber space. BUT (and I mean this sincerely) I hope and pray that you do not have someone close to you die at the hands of a “diseased” 12th stepping pompous ass.

  6. AA is a microcosm of society. Blaming AA for this horrible tragedy is like placing blame on any organization for the bad choices of an adult. Are all bars going to get closed down because a woman is killed by a man she has met there? No. AA is full of good people who are there for the right reasons. And there are people there who are there for the wrong reasons, too. Women are warned of these men. I was. When we follow the suggestions, we find life to be a wonderful place. RIP, Karla.

    • AA is not a microcosm or society, but that is what they want you to believe. AA has a higher % of criminals them in the general public. It has a higher concentration of mentally ill, drug and alcohol addicted people as well as sex predators and violent felons.

      Even bars throw people out that get disorderly and harass people. AA does not.

  7. Aa has helped me I’m sorry about your daughter but she could have met him anywhere aa is not a dating service it is a place where we go where other people have had the same experience in our addiction and understand us when we tell our story aa doesn’t recommend to anyone that they start relationships in the rooms it is awful what happened to your daughter but you can’t tell me that everyone in aa is dangerous

  8. I hope you are not so bias that you don’t include my comment. I am sickened to hear of this tragedy. I am someone who is often conflicted by what I hear and experience in my recovery mostly in how the program is used as a verbal weapon to manipulate others rather than a tool to guide others. However, I can’t emphasize enough that in truth it is a flaw in humanity found in every organization that would have allowed for this type of pond scum to thrive. Unfortunately a group which anyonimity is one of its few ways that otherwise normal people can let down their guard enough to attend. Can you imagine if it were like most things and you had to sign up and include all your personal information. Trust that your attempt to safe your life,job,family was actually going to be the largest single action you could take that would now have you on a database of some of societies lowest of the low. That you would voluntarily have now opened the door to the scrutiny of the legal system and society. Your only crime was seeking help. I doubt that people who had yet hit a rock bottom in the classical sense would trust in that process. I believe that it is highly unlikely that A.A. encouraged this individual to become a predator nor if some of its members knew that they found a piece of literature to support the behavior. I believe that once again like in every group exists a few seeds that a much worse than the rest. Perhaps even have found like minded people who are predators by nature and exploit the primary purpose of any opportunity they can find.I believe much like many have stated that the A.A. rooms are full of sick people. That I assure you doesn’t mean people who on their worst day would ever consider becoming a predator capable of this action or believing that this would be OK..The way that these 12 step groups are set up really doesn’t allow for this to be policed from within yet it has some very important suggestions about how you teach people how to treat you by allowing or not allowing them to be in your life.That sponsors are only in place to guide you through the steps and to never feel trapped in that relationship because it is up to the individual to choose with whom they are going to trust to do this with.Also to view it more like you are hiring someone so that you also feel that you are in charge and can leave that relationship much like a job and not like a marriage. I’m sickened like I started this with, by human predators in any form. I lost my mother to a predator that she also refused to charge countless times over many years. He beat her into epilepsy and extreme addiction until she took her own life.I reminded him that it wax murder in the form of slow torture and that I was the one who had survived the same crime.So I believe I am qualified to comment on this issue. Please except my condolences on behalf of her loved ones. I hope this if nothing else at least is shared on your page as my reflections after having carefully read almost all the comments almond replies posted.

    • Regardless of all of what you say, there is NO logical sane reason for AA not to make the rooms of AA safer. What AA has been doing is putting peoples lives in danger. It is totally irresponsible for AA and NA to allow minors and teenagers to let felons be sponsors for them or to allow women who very might have already had sex abuse trauma in their past to be sponsored by a rapist or mentally ill female.

      It is a good reason because many women are vulnerable when it comes to domestic violence to NOT put them in the same meetings and mentally ill violent criminals.

      Many organizations have issues true, but even they have a process where employees and customers or members can file a complaint. AA has nothing in place. They hide behind their statement that there are no leaders, when there actually is in New York.

      If the Boy Scouts and Alateen do it, why not AA? Why should AA be exempt from making the rooms safer and addressing sexual harassment, rape and murder by other 12 step members? There is no good reason to allow AA to continue to be negligent and irresponsible.

      • you obviously do not understand how A.A works. There are now leaders, no one governs. Please people educate yourselves before you speak. If everyone did this discussion would not be happening!

        • Actually it is you who does not understand AA, only you have been successfully brainwashed into believing this propaganda. The leaders are in New York who receive tons of money a year who make executive decisions all of the time without YOUR approval. It would be in reality impossible to run a corporation with no leaders. AA is no different. Even each group tends to have their leader guru, often the one who might have started that group.

          Alateen is a 12 step program based on the same principles as AA and Alanon. They incorporate strict safety guidelines for the minors they serve. If a group does not follow the guidelines they will be delisted quickly.

          If Alateen can do this so can other 12 step programs. Obviously someone has to make decisions! Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not your little group doing it. They just placate to groups making them believe this. At the end of the day the the board members at the home offices make the final big choices.

  9. A.A. has helped many people through the years. I myself am enjoying 14+ years of sobriety because of AA. We don’t delve into people’s past unless they share it with us. And just because somebody has been to prison or whatever does not mean they’ll be turned away. Sure, there may be some bad people in AA, but there are bad people in just every organization, non-profit or otherwise.
    As for the ‘rules’ which you stated: There is no AA rule which states men sponsor men and women sponsor women. This is merely a suggestion. I know a lot of sponsor/sponsee of opposite sex which do quite well. Don’t blame Alcoholics Anonymous. It’s only individuals who admit to being members.

    • Fact is, anyone can claim to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous without attending a single meeting. In fact, there is no requirement that an individual secures the service of a “sponsor.” Furthermore, the Twelve Traditions of A. A. clearly state there is “NO” real authority in A. A.

      Interestingly, any two or three individuals who gather together to discuss recovery from alcoholism can call themselves an A. A. group providing there is no other affiliation. Therefore, they enjoy autonomy (no supervisory authority).

      Google: Twelve Traditions (Long Form/Short Form)

      Why didn’t the parents intervene after the first police call?

      • Rick the parents did not know that there was a police call and arrest of Eric. They did know she had bruises and ask her about it but she did not tell her family what happened. Many domestic violence victims protect their abuser because The abuser has isolated the victim etc.

        AA has no business telling rehabs for women to go to AA meetings where they know that dangerous violent felons are going to as well.

    • @Mike: You sound like someone who practices the program as it was intended- what advice would you have for someone who is up against the exact opposite, especially in an area where most of the same people went to virtually all of the available meetings?

  10. Unbelievable. Anyone who does not like AA clearly doesn’t need AA, clearly doesn’t understand the 100’s of 1,000’s of lives it has saved. Not just alcoholics or addicts, but all of the. Potential victims of DUI accidents, as well as domestic violence victims. Let’s not forget, it is more common place for these incidents to happen when someone is impaired. To say AA is evil or wrong, is to tell so many whose lives it has saved, that they are wrong. That just will not fly.

    • Well Brian what about all the lives AA has cost? You do know there have been countless suicides by AA and NA members don’t you? Even AA has admitted that AA members cause suicides when steppers tell them to go off their meds and not go to a therapist. It is a huge problem. I do realize AA’s official position is that is not their policy, yet AA has NO policy to end this common practice. The way it stands now is AA can know of thousands of sponsors telling members to go off meds, and there is nothing they will do about it. NOTHING! They also allow violent felons to sponsor teens and vulnerable women and the elderly.

      There is no proof who AA has actually helped. Considering 95% leave AA and AA also has a 3%- 5% success rate it appears it harms almost 10 fold those they help. Some never even live to tell about it, Like poor Karla Brada who was killed by Eric Earle.

          • It only has that because no one is willing to do what it takes to stay sober. . But they are willing to do what it takes to get fucked up/. . . Truth. .
            Take it on down the road. .

        • Im not suprised by most peoples comments on here. . AA does have a 100% success rate for THOSE WHO ARE WILLING to follow suggestions. . SUGGESTIONS people. . this suing of AA is just ridiculous. just gonna drag them through the mud. . its pointless to argue with anyone that has no understanding of what it takes to stay sober for those of us who cannot do it on our own. They will NEVER understand. so i just leave it alone. The program has saved my life as well as hundreds of thousands of others. . Bad people exist in all of society. Get off your soapbox and go tell it to someone else who gives a shit. .

          • Ben you are a classic example of a brainwashed AA cult member. Even AA states their success rate is a pathetic 3-5%!!!! So anyone who is not helped in AA and maybe even loses their lives it is always 100% their fault? It has nothing to do with the fact that AA is nothing but addicts that are non professional often with untreated mental illness? You are certainly in lala land.

          • It is obvious you do NOT give a damn about the your own peers in AA that are being sexually abused, harassed, financially scammed. You just think AA should get a free pass and be allowed to continued to have violent criminal infested meetings with women and minors. You show the true colors of many steppers. This is a country of laws and AA is not above the law. It has a responsibility to those they profess to serve.

      • One death that could have been prevented is one death too many. People who are truly seeking help should not be up against potentially life-threatening situations.

        • Exactly Sunkist. There is no reason AA should continue in this vain turning their backs on their own members. Peoples cries for help fall on deaf ears. AA just does not care. They are a greedy dangerous cult.

          Karla Brada lost her life because of AA’s zero policies on safety.

          • @AD: It seems to me there’s one simple step that could make a big difference- it wouldn’t solve everything, of course, but it would make a difference. The info I found on how to start A.A. and N.A. groups included writing in for literature and getting registered by their GSO/WSO. I’d think they should be willing to check into complaints people make against specific groups, and if the complaints are valid they should say the group can no longer operate as an A.A. or N.A. group. By allowing people to put ‘Alcoholics Anonymous’ or ‘Narcotics Anonymous’ on groups essentially gives the groups their seal-of-approval, & they should be held accountable.

            • From what I’ve seen during the last 20+ years (since I first heard of 12-Step programs), there are at least two reasons it’s not useful to put the label ‘sick’ on alcoholics/addicts.

              First there are individuals who truly do want to overcome their dependencies, work to change, and have better lives. What HOPE do they have when they’re consistently told that no matter what they do they’ll be ‘sick’ for the rest of their lives?

              And on the other side of it, it’s a built-in excuse- individuals who claim they’re ‘sick’ alcoholics/addicts are not made to take responsibility for their behavior.

  11. As much as I support the parents in this lawsuit, the “defense” of AAWS will be that all of its “local affiliates” are “autonomous”, and therefore the “World Services” have “no say” in what a local group does (not to mention its lack of record keeping, and alleged lack of “membership” rosters!). But I DO HOPE that this family can at least get some AAWS people DEPOSED, and that a civil trial can be held (I would SO WANT TO BE on THAT jury duty!). Anything that facilitates the demise of AA, I am ALL IN FAVOR OF! Good luck, and positive thoughts to the plaintiffs!

    • That could be their defense, but that does not mean it is going to fly. I do not think it will because they have been notified about the dangers in the AA rooms and they refuse to address it. I hope this lawsuit will force AA’s hand to finally start being responsible and so something to prevent these tragedies.

        • The courts will decide. But they do have a responsibility to keep the rooms safe and by co mingling violent felons like Eric Earle and female rehab attendees is a recipe for disaster. AA knows it and they do not care. it is irresponsible, and I believe the courts will believe it as well.

    • I’m wondering…………
      Don’t the groups have to register with GSO? If the group that Karla attended is registered with the GSO office in NY, then that maybe the direct link the plaintiffs need to connect AAWS.

      • Good point. Also most groups send money up the food chain.
        I doubt AA will be able to wiggle out of this one. This has been a long time coming!

        • Thanks Anti D.

          On another note, there’s a poster (imposter, teehee), that is feigning to be an interested and concerned person; wanting to know the outcome of the civil suit (i.e. that has just been filed). He’s asking questions – the old bait and switch type – and I really don’t think he gives a hoot about this important matter.
          He/she knows that there is no outcome to report just yet. He/she is just being an annoying galoot using stepper spin to insight frustration.
          I’m surprised he/she hasn’t posted here; uses the handle name of sam.

          • How about that a poster posing as a concerned person about the newly filed lawsuit. I bet they are hoping for all kinds of details. In time there will be more. It would be nice for AA and NA members to actually care about these victims and not blame them.

            • I agree Anti D., They pupport love and tolerance, but are not very tolerant when their views about safety are challenged in any way.

              This lawsuit will shed a negative light on these arrogant so called spiritual torch barrers and let’s see how well received they’ll by the public when they try to defend the indefensible.

              Yup, the old bait and switch. Most of these people bring hypocrisy to a whole different level.

              • As an “arrogant spiritual torch bearer” – I’m a woman with several years in AA, I will be the first to say this wonderful program saved my life, got my kids back, and gave me a wonderful new existence. Every man I have ever met in AA has been nothing but supportive and helpful, as have all the women. Millions of men and women would have perished if not for the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. There are creeps and predators in every organization. Should we run a police check on people wishing to join any self help organization? With all due respect it seems plainly evident that Miss Brada ignored several red flags. All of us, men and women both are taught as children there are evil people out there and they are not going to go away. It is up to us all to protect ourselves….remember, “never get into cars with strangers” …She had plenty of opportunity to get away from this creep, unfortunately she chose not to do so. There are AA meetings specifically for women, men, gays, professionals, etc. Why not an all female meeting. We are all ultimately responsible for our own safety. This lawsuit is ridiculous.

                • Good for you. And yes, we should run a police check for people who want to join a self help organization. Sociopaths exist and they do not give a damn about you or anyone else. Warnings would help tremendously. Glad you got your kids back. Unfortunately, Mr. and Mrs. Mendez did not.

                  • This is another example of a woman being completely absolved of any responsibility for her own life and well being simply because she was born female. She is being painted as a completely helpless and defenseless victim. As a woman I find it highly offensive that we are always portrayed as weak, helpless and defenseless – portraying women almost as though they were mindless infants with no responsibility or intelligence to conduct their own lives or be responsible for their own safety and security is infuriating to me. Irregardless of where Miss Brada met this creep – in an AA meeting room, or a table at Starbucks, the fact remains she clearly ignored many red flags. Had she used better judgement she would still be alive today. It’s sad and tragic she is gone – but Eric Earle killed Karla – not Alcoholics Anonymous.

    • Atheistically Yours – I guess if this preposterous lawsuit is successful you might get your wish as to the “demise of AA.” AA was founded on a simple premise- one alcoholic sharing their experience, strength and hope with each other and finding a solution based on spiritual principles. Based on your moniker- “Atheistically Yours” I can see where your animas towards AA comes from. AA comports itself based on 12 Steps and 12 Traditions. One of those traditions is number 9, which states: “AA ought never be organized, but may create service boards….” So now each group has to create a service board for criminal activity??? Yes, I can see that working-not!

      • Perhaps not criminal activity – but how about something simple (KISS) – a board or committee that addresses safety conerns. Don’t you think?

      • How about AA having safety policies and even a hotline where people can call to report abuse? What about not co mingling minors with sex predators and violent felons? There is so much AA could do but they do not. They turn their backs on the victims that they are supposed to be serving.

          • Yes, because they work with the courts and ask them to send criminals to their meetings. They have lots of literature specific to prisons and the courts. AA by cooperating with the courts are aiding our government to unconstitutionally mandate American citizens. They should be ashamed of themselves.

    • this is unbelievable I am AA but I know many in the program if follow steps I see hope maybe AA is not for every Alcholic but if u r in the program n follwing it U do date others in program I greatly understand the guy was murderer but she chose to stay with and drop charges How is that AA fault .Yes some1 needs to stand up as no 1 should be a sponsor with background or male to female I am very sorry for loss but if he was a busive woman should have been shelter there are many horrible crimes due to addiction but u must blame the perso n not an organization tries to help .Prayers for family

  12. My h is a bipolar and a narcassist and aa enbles him saying hes fine. They play doctors and they play god. Run away as fast as you can. You dont need aa to get straight.

    • Sharee: right on!!!
      And maybe his group or sponsor should read what A.A. says about that- they even have a special pamphlet telling people to only take medical/health advice from their own physicians.

  13. I started to read these replies when I realized this is really a simple matter. Keep it simple. AA teaches personal responsibility and not playing the part of the victim. The moment this man hit her he stopped being her sponsor. She should have gotten a more appropriate sponsor. I am sure she heard the suggestion to have a female sponsor. (suggestion not rule) When this man wanted back into her house she should have gotten her sponsors opinion which would have been “Hell no.” She was an adult and should be responsible for her own actions. This scenario happens on a regular basis without AA being involved. So why now is there a scapegoat? Because the family feels that their precious little girl did nothing wrong.
    Errors on her part:
    Aquired a male sponsor – it is suggested not to do this, she ignored suggestion.
    Allowed sponsor to move in with her – very bad idea even if it would have been a woman.
    Failed to press charges – seriously, you blame AA when she wont even help herself?
    Could have attended another group – tons of meetings, not all are bad.
    Involved romatically – if she was in her first year as it sounds, it would have been suggested that she not be involved.

    So, think about it this way, she was definitely not following any suggestions and you want to hold AA responsible? Seriously? I guess as parents you must not have held her accountable for any of her actions. Don’t get me wrong, she did not deserve to die. But when someone close to you has health issues, it pays to be involved just a little bit. Every job I have ever had or any group I have ever joined has at least one individual who’s moral compass is askew. As an adult I have to be on guard for this.

    KEEP IT SIMPLE: While she did not deserve to die, she set herself up for it. I need to be responsible for the people I let into my life.

    • Geez, give this family a break from your AA rhetoric of worn out slogans like “Keeping it Simple.” Do yourself a favor and do some Google searches. Type crime and Alcoholic/Narcotics Anonymous and you will find plenty of stories to chose from and most will not involve a women who had a male sponsor. You can also find plenty examples on this very website. AA is a dangerous place especially for young women and teens. I also would not suggest taking your kids to meetings as I will assure you there are plenty of articles out there of children who have been molested at meetings as well. I quit AA not so much because it is a dangerous place, but I believe it is dangerous to the mind. You say they tell you not to play the role of a victim? Well that is exactly what the program makes you into, a victim of a made up disease, alcoholism is a choice! Abuse alcohol and you risk addiction, and that is keeping it simple and taking real responsibility to me.

    • I cannot comment specifically on Ms. Brada’s situation, because I was not there and I did not know her. However, there are some points that should be made:

      First, the A.A. pamphlet on sponsorship says: A.A. experience does suggest that it is best for
      men to sponsor men, women to sponsor women.
      This custom usually helps our members stay
      focused on the A.A. program.

      Neither ‘suggests’ nor ‘helps members stay focused-‘ in any way implies that it is a rule, OR that a person may be endangering his/her life by not following the ‘suggestion.’

      Second, if you are not ‘in a person’s shoes,’ you do not know why a person does not press charges. Not only has it been stated Ms. Brada was threatened and intimidated by other members, the ‘internal memo’ that was written by an A.A. board member states that this is very common.

      And third, while some of the first malarky I began hearing in 12-Step programs is one can never ‘judge’ anyone else, nor ‘take someone else’s inventory,’ your post shows you are doing exactly that.

      • Oh, re: what you said about being ‘responsible for the people you let into your life’- perhaps you should read what their board member said about stalkers. Criminals do not need permission or invitations to get into other people’s lives- and that includes those in A.A.

    • That may be the sickest excuse I have ever read in defense of a murderer. You are a victim blamer. This women with women thing has not stopped predators. You don’t seem knowledgeable in the deceitful ruses and cons that predators use that are hard to detect upon first meeting them. Your sexist AA literature has allowed for the mistreatment of women for decades, in the rooms and outside the rooms. AA women who also defend the sexism and lax attitude towards violence against women are actually a part of the problem. How can family and friends be involved when you must keep your AA friends anonymous?

      Did AA teach you to make these excuses on behalf of the AA organization? My kids’ schools (elementary schools) have safety policies. My work has safety policies. The reason is because if my co-worker harasses me or if I am a victim of any crime, I can trust my employer will protect me. Saying AA is off the hook? You are wrong.

      People are going to AA for help. They meet AA members who tell them they are “honest” and “humble” and this trust is violated by people like Earle. You are lucky Mike T. to have that male privilege of not understanding what it is like to be physically intimidated, sexually abused, and the severe emotional and mental pain and embarrassment of being duped by another adult. I am certain every job you ever had made you sign a contract that you’d follow your “moral compass” or face the consequences of losing your job. Guess what? AA doesn’t give anyone consequences. If you’re a predator, you’d be going to AA because you’re guaranteed the protection of the fellowship, the anonymity, and the ability to prey on vulnerable people.

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/addiction-in-society/201405/aa-s-male-culture

      AA has shown through it’s books, words and actions that it has no respect for women. That is the truth.

      • Then how come there are millions of women AA has successfully helped turn there lives around, who love this program and the help and encouragement it has brought them. God I hate you pathetic feminists and your f!@#$%^ victim mentality.

    • “The world is a dangerous place, not because of the people who do evil, but beause of the people who allow it to happen.” Albert Einstein

    • What about AA taking a personal inventory and look at their part in all of the crimes against members? Why do they not look at suggestions to have safety policies and stop mixing the regular population along with dangerous violent criminals like Eric Earle?

  14. Per the story AA and rules on sponsorship. Someone show me that rule. I know it will not be in court as there is no rule. I wonder who sponsored Marty Mann the first or second women in AA. Must of been a man.

    Maybe you all should put the blame on the courts system as they send every tom, dick and harry to AA because they don’t want to deal with them.

    • You invite someone to show you an AA Rule. There are none, as you should know. Only Guidelines & Traditions. Derived from early meeting. IE, The first woman was most almost certainly sponsored by a man. From that very action it might have emerged that it wasn’t a good idea. Hence it was noted. Hence it was added to Guidelines.
      Excuse short sentences. Just thought it might make it easier for you to grasp. Still drinking?

    • There is no rule. Only suggestions. Just like there is no rule against bullying, stalking, harassing, intimidating, abusing, raping … members.

      • Then they do not even suggest to not bully, harass or stop 13 stepping or raping! It is like the wild wild west and they love it.

        • ANTIDENIAL 13 step isn’t really a step, and it isn’t embraced in the 12 step program, and actually the way I read the literature it speaks of living by a moral compass of kindness love and being responsible, I am familiar with some groups who have warned members of predators if it is found out there is someone in the room who is only there to pray on the vulnerable I know they have been asked to leave that meeting and they haven’t been allowed back in. So I don’t think accusing AA as a whole is appropriate.

          • There in lays the problem. Please read the first paragraph of the Third Tradition in the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions. That alone is affecting “other groups or aa as a whole” as touted in the Fourth Tradition.

            It is encouraging that in your group experience(s) that members are taking this seriously from an autonomous standpoint. All should do so.

            I hope that you don’t encounter the depth of grief that the Mendez family has had to experience. I hope your family members and friends remain safe in the rooms of any 12 step program. Until then there will be those of that will continue to express genuine concern about the lack of safety warnings of an organization that mixes violent offenders with other vulnerable people.

          • Yes in AA it is called the 13th Step by steppers. It is a phrase they coined. They do nothing to stop it either. The rooms are full of men preying on women knowing they are vulnerable like poor Karla Brada. Eric Earle was an evil AA member in the rooms for 20 years! I feel so bad for the Karla Mendez Brada family.

    • That’s what I said Tig while we’re blaming everyone but the predator lets blame the court systems for sending every tom, dick and harry to AA because they don’t want to deal with them – And I DO work with the court system and am very familiar step programs so I a do understand the process.
      It is a tragic loss for that poor family.
      Being a victim of domestic violence as well I do know the trial it was for me to escape that deadly relationship I had to take responsibility for my own life with the help of my Dad and Mom and my brothers and sisters who did an intervention on me because they KNEW that my bruises was not from falling down.
      What’s even more sick is how the media has such a slanted reporting and others profit off this kind of tragedy by writing one sided views at the expense of the victims privacy and peace as well as innocent members who truly work a life saving program.
      I am continuing to pray for the loved ones and families for peace clarity and protection.

      • I DID not see it as one sided. They accurately reported the numbers here in the US as well as abroad and how it has helped people in the “millions”. What is seemingly uncofortable is that an inventory of AA’s indiffernnce to safety under the guise of anonymity is being exposed – and the truth does hurt – it will hurt the outdated bb and 12 x 12 and the money generated by the sale of the literature.

  15. I’ve seen a load of unsavory crap going on in “the rooms”. I got tired of it and left. I am so glad this movement got started. A.A. needs to be forced to clean their own house. It’s a MORAL inventory, not a “bury your head in the sand and pretend there’s nothing going on” inventory.

    “Don’t see anything the matter here Ma!!! Ain’t you glad the wind stopped blowing?” ~ Big Book quote.

    • Exactly Starwanderer! They need to be forced, and we need more people standing up to AA and NA. Glad you got out. How long were you in?

      It is such incredible hypocrisy how AA wants members to look at their part in things and make amends, yet as an organization they REFUSE to do this.

      • Hello; I started going to meetings in 1988 I left in 1990 after I found some BIG discrepancies between what the Big Book said and what was going on within the rooms. White collar blue collar bigotry, one guy supposedly “sober” 10 years getting into a relationship with an ex prostitute fresh out of rehab that ended up running a cathouse with her. They both ended up on cocaine and got busted for drug and prostitution, crack addicted pedophiles, infighting between groups involving sexual propositioning female members and the males making death threats if they open their mouth about anything. That’s when I left. I kind of thought it was time anyway for a lot of other reasons, like living my life. One of those groups was my home group that was eventually ousted by the other. I can verify that these are not isolated incidents, but I’m living proof that one can leave without fear of relapse. The biggest amend I owed was to myself and I made it. I left.

        • What a story. AA and NA like to portray these are isolated incidences when they really know they are not.
          I have heard them scream in the parks-‘ what is said here-stays here!’. Of course we know internally that is true because they are a huge gossip factory. But they are good at covering up the seedy side, and lying about it on top of that.

          • I think you both, since you have the specifics, should cite the specifics and which meeting specifically this occurred. I can’t imagine that the meeting members allowed this type of behavior in their rooms, so just be honest and out the year and don’t be anonymous, be truthful, what meetings, since they are not isolated I am sure you have a long list.

            • Ten—No A.A. group or MEMBER should ever, in such a
              way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside
              controversial issues—particularly those of politics, alcohol
              reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous
              groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can
              express no views whatsoever.

              SO STOP EXPRESSING YOUR VIEWS LYNETTE. Go back to your little Silo of a group and rant and rave all you want about our efforts to make AA safer.

        • I have been going to meeting for years and allot of this is true. If a predator can live where ever he wants, so long as he has given his address to the proper authorities. How and the hell do we keep them out of meetings. The next thing the predators will be filing law suits for not letting them attend AA and NA. The problem is, everybody wants someone to blame. The truth here is that someone trusted another person and they used poor judgment in doing so. When are people going to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions and choices.

          • You ask how you stop predators out of meetings? Stop inviting them- that will help!

            When is AA going to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions and choices?

            • really- blaming a dead women for a plea deal that got a violent offender into AA for over 22 years who kills a young woman who has no idea this is going on is NOT HER FAULT! Flip is you se this and do nothing…you have a part in it. These days are over in AA. The gig is up. The media cant hide the truth.

              You keep them out of AA by making it policy Zero tolerance for sexual harassmnet. Its that simple!

              • need to stop all this animosity. first- each group is autonomous and polices itself. second- there is no way to know where people come from, whom they are or where they are going. third-all people are human beings and deserve the right to be such no matter what others opinions are of them. fourth-aa does not do background checks on people trying to change their lives or intentionally try to hurt individual. fifth- members are responsible for their own actions. aa does not have cops or dictators. I found it is always best to do a self inventory before going half cocked and putting blame on others. Let me not sit on a pedestal looking down on others or the misfortunate and let me not be the judge and play god to another human being but for the grace of God there go I.

                • AA should do background checks at least at a minimum for sponsors of minors. Check out Alateen. They are a 12 step based program and they have good safety guidelines. No one ever arrested for a sex crime can be a sponsor. There always needs to be 2 adult Ala-non people with a Alateen member etc. There is so much AA and NA could do to make the rooms safer but they just do not give a damn John.

    • I have told members that the AA organization should practice what it preaches and follow the 12 Steps for years. In response, I’m told I don’t understand the Big Book. The steps are for members. They are only suggestions. That isn’t how AA works. Well, then how does AA work? It’s not from following the steps.

      • Right I have thought that too! Like how about doing a rigorous inventory of all the harm they have done to us humans and then make amends? AA is the most hypocritical narcissistic organization I have ever spoke with. They are greedy cowards.

  16. AS A LONG TIME AA MEMBER I AM SAD AND SICKEND BY WHAT HAPPENED, AA SAVED MY LIFE BUT TODAY AT 20 YEARS I STILL DONT TRUST EVERYONE I MEET, I DONT GIVE MY PHONE NUMBER TO ANYONE UNTIL I KNOW THEM.I DONT LOAN MONEY. AA IS NOT PERFECT OR DOES IT PROFESS TO BE THE ONLY METHOD TO QUIT DRINKING BUT IT WORKED FOR ME AND I TRY TO KEEP MY INTENTIONS TO HELPING PEOPLE GET SOBER AND CHANGING THEIR LIVES. SUCH A HORRIBLE THING TO HAPPEN BUT IT ISNT HAPPENING JUST AT AA, VIOLENCE HAS BECOME PART OF OUR AMERICAN LIFE,WE READ ABOUT HORRIBLE EVENTS ALL THE TIME. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT THE ONES OF THAT GET SOBER, AND STAY SOBER ARE MAKING A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS TO CHANGE IN OUR FRATURING MODERN SOCIETY IN AMERICA. THE QUESTION I ASK MYSELF IS WHAT CAN I DO TO PREVENT THESE ACTS IN MY GROUP.
    SINCERLY BARRY O.

    • Barry ohm writes: “SUCH A HORRIBLE THING TO HAPPEN BUT IT ISN’T HAPPENING JUST AT AA, VIOLENCE HAS BECOME PART OF OUR AMERICAN LIFE,WE READ ABOUT HORRIBLE EVENTS ALL THE TIME.”

      This isn’t about how “violence is a part of American life.” That is a totally different subject that has NOTHING to do with this beautiful, young woman who was MURDERED.

      I’ll never understand that type of logic from AA members.

      Violence and killing in the Middle East is a part of American life, too, but that too has NOTHING to do with the inexcusable, untimely MURDER of Karla Brada. Catch my drift? Do you see any logic in comparing those two things?

      I didn’t think so.

      THIS is a about a young woman who attended Alcoholics Anonymous, trying her best to get her life back together, doing her best to stay abstinent from substances, be they booze or drugs.

      THIS is about a young woman who attended Alcoholics Anonymous, putting her trust into Alcoholics Anonymous AND it’s members who swear to GodRockApplesauce, and spout off at their mouths, how wonderful their program is; “a design for living that works 100% and has helped 2 million people worldwide.” And exactly how many have they currently retained at any given time?

      Keep Going Back. It Doesn’t Work, No Matter How You Work It. I hear this week they’re serving up Lime Kool-Aid, or maybe it’s Grape.

      Both taste shitty, no matter how much “sugar” you put in it.

      • Yes Karla Brada was a victim of AA policy to look the other way and do absolutely nothing when they know about sex abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse. Both AA and NA look the other way, and crimes are being committed against vulnerable members of 12 step programs. Then they want to blame the victim.

        • The point is— other places have rules. Places that aren’t even in the business of dealing with court ordered DUIs, domestic violent offenders, child molesters. The fact is AA has these people in the rooms. Not counting those who are there to prey on others and have never been caught. Why the hell of all places would AA not have any rules? Prison has rules! Elementary and High Schools. My workplace! AA is not above the law.

          • I totally agree with you Juliet. AA is not above the law. The Boy Scouts and Little League and almost every other organization has safety measures and guidelines. They do not even have mandated violent felons going to them!
            Here is a website that would love to help AA and all other 12 step programs. But AA wants nothing to do with them.

            http://www.ncsisafe.com/ The National Center for Safety Initiatives.

  17. There is much about this case that I don’t understand. How is a woman living with someone that she doesn’t even know? Karla didn’t know this man for a week before they were living together in her home. Do you really think that a sponsor could have told this hopelessly in love/confusion/lust – whatever it might have been – woman that she needed to make him leave pronto…and that she would have done it? How do we know that didn’t happen? I have worked with many people that didn’t seem to realize that being “single” while in early sobriety isn’t a bad idea, yet I have seen some of these same posters complain that sponsors tried to “run their lives” with those suggestions. This was HER home, not his, so it wasn’t as if she had no where to go.

    It never should have happened. But I can’t help but this if a person is so needy that she’d move someone into her home with so little introduction, that she met him at AA isn’t the problem. She could have met him anywhere.

    • I do not see where it is stated that she allowed this man to move in with her within a week of meeting him. The point is these people are very vulnerable-thus can make poor choices. Being vulnerable also makes it difficult if you are trying to fend off a sociopath and/or predator. These guys prey on these women and know what to say to get in their good graces. Isn’t this obvious? Also once she realized any possible mistake she had made, the AA sponsors were telling her to bail out this guy out of jail after he beat her. He then murdered her. Thanks AA for your help manipulating a beaten woman into releasing a violent felon.

      • Thank you for your reponse, Forest. I have read about this case on other boards and the information on all of them varies. I feel that you are making my case for me. Newly sober people ARE vulnerable in many ways, which is the reason that many groups have a no dating suggestion that applies to the first year. But this stuff isn’t limited to AA. I know people that have left rehabs and stopped in Vegas on the way home. When they got into trouble, their rehabs were not responsible.

        I think this is horrible and I wish abuses of any person, male or female, wouldn’t happen. What we have thus far is information solely from the viewpoint of bereaved parents. I am sure that more will be revealed.

        • Carrie- Let me be more clear. I hardly think that after the irresponsible behavior of Alcoholics Anonymous of inviting violent felons to meetings without warning people is softened that AA suggests people do not date for the first year! Telling people not to date is not going to stop the evil intentions of a court mandated rapist or other multiple dangerous felon from taking advantage of women. You tell people that their best thinking got them to AA, yet you throw them into a pack of wolves and expect them to have the proper tools to defend themselves?

          • I wasn’t told in AA not to date the first year and Ihave never found that in any of the literature.. I think that is rehab fallout. It still is a good idea as so many things happen that first year. i think it is a good idea to focus on self, recovery and then find out just what it is you might even want in a partner.

        • Sounds like you are just spreading lies Carrie to further your agenda. I have not read the two started living together within a week. Even if that was true, did it ever cross your mind that he insinuated his way into her life by sweeping her off her feet? Remember it was reported they were engaged to be married as well. He was really laying it on thick. He sponsor knew what a violent man he was and only encouraged Karla Brada do stay with this killer by telling her to bail him out after he beat her! Does not sound like he was trying to protect her or telling her to not be dating. Nice try trying to blame the victim and leave AA totally unaccountable. Your logic does not fly here.

  18. According to investigators, Earle has a history of domestic violence against women. In August 2011, he was arrested for allegedly assaulting Brada, however she decided to not move forward with the case and authorities were unable to prosecute him.

    Lugo said Earle and Brada had been dating for two months before she was killed. At the time of the incident, they were living together, he said.

    I have told women not to date for the first year. I’ve also been told to mind my own business and they did as they chose. I just don’t see how the family of a woman that chose not to prosecute a man that had assaulted her or to move out after he did can then blame AA for her death. They were living togther and she knew him for 2 months? I have a feeling she wouldn’t have taken anyone’s advice.

    • What about the men that are preying on the women? Do you talk to them? AA sponsors and members talked Karla out of pressing charging and encouraged her to bail him out of jail. I can see clearly why this family is suing AA World Services et al. AA needs to be held accountable for looking the other way when crimes are being committed. This should be a wake up call to everyone. AA has become a cesspool for violent, mentally ill sicko’s. So many people leave AA in the first month once they realize what is really going on.

  19. I see a lot of misunderstanding about AA and how it actually works. First off AA has no “laws”, we have suggestions. We are not mandates reporters. Often times when a person appears to be in a dangerous situation someone in the group would try to help. AA does not harbor people and AA sponsors are simply other alcoholics who are recovering helping someone to help them go through the steps. Sponsors are not paid, they are not employees, they do their work to spread their experience, strength and hope to others in the hopes that a “newcomer” will find that they can relate to someone who has lived a life in addiction. We do not screen new members or do criminal background checks. People who come into the meetings aren’t necessarily going to talk about everything about their history. There is no such thing as the AA police. AA is a bunch of sick people trying to get well. Yet people meet other people in AA, they do share phone numbers but you don’t have to give your number to anyone you don’t want to. There are so many things listed about this suit that insinuate AA/NA is somehow responsible for this womans murder. AA is a program not a rehab center. AA does not hire professionals to “treat” the addicted. Is it loosly organized? Yes, that’s the way AA works. No matter what someone will criticize AA. Are there creeps who go to AA? Absolutely but that doesn’t necesarrily mean they are creeps.

        • What has happened in this case is clearly tragic, there is nothing disputing that. I can honestly say that in my years of recovery I have never once heard someone disclose anything close to this horror. That being said yes the program prides itself on anonymity. How else could someone get sober using a 12 step program? I couldn’t have. If someone want’s professional counseling or treatment they can get it but not in AA. AA is not professional, it is not organized and it’s “rules” are merely suggestions. For decades AA has helped people to get sober. I highly doubt that this guys AA sponsor was the only one to know about this heinous crime. Yet AA as a whole is being held accountable for the actions of one of it’s members. I am not brainwashed, I am not delusional and in fact I am a highly trained professional who happens to be a recovering alcoholic. AA has helped my family for generations. Are there bad people in AA? Yes. There are bad people everywhere. The great majority of people in AA are not bad people. My own personal belief is that this murderer should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Actually I wish his punishment could be stronger than that. That will be left to a jury of his peers. As for AA I will defend it for as long as I am alive. I am only alive because of AA and it’s principles. I am truly sorry that this family has had to deal with the unthinkable but laying blame at the doorsteps of AA is not the answer.

          • Tammy, I hope AA is exposed for the predator harboring organization that they are. Do you know that they voted to do NOTHING to protect children from sexual predators?

            They have even admitted it, they are fully aware of it. Yet they turn there backs on children. That is criminal. No other Org gets away with this but AA. It is wrong. Just like when Penn State did nothing. It was wrong. In time AA will be held accountable for thier crimes against society.

            • I could think of dozen’s of so called predator harboring organizations. You could cite recent cases with the Catholic Church. Doesn’t mean all priests, parishes or dioces are hiding predators. You could cite cases involving police officers. Doesn’t mean all police officers are predators! Perhaps you have a problem with secular Jewish communities that have a high incidence of sexual abuse towards children. Does that mean that all temples are harboring criminals and predators? What about schools, camps for kids? Because Jerry Sandusk molested dozens of boys does that mean that all football coaches who mentor children are pedophiles? Not even close. Someone here has an ax to grind and it isn’t me. Hatred is contagious doesn’t mean I blame you for all of the haters out there. You can try to lump me in with the so called predators or people who you say hides them but you’d be wrong. Because of your apparent hatred of AA people have problably left good meetings listening to your B.S. If they relapse and kill someone while driving should the families of the victims blame you or this website? Should they be able to sue you for spreading inflammatory information (much of which is just ignorant) that prevented someone from getting better? Hmm seems like the same line of logic. I will defend AA as long as I am alive. I also work with families and children and I will continue advocate for them too. As an aside I am educated, I have a high IQ and I don’t belong to a cult. I am an alcoholic and I haven’t had a drink in years. That you can take to the bank buddy.

              • There is nothing on this site that is not true Tammy. Inflammatory, maybe. I do not hate AA people. In fact many that are on sites exposing the problems with AA WERE AA members for a long time.

                Just because there were people exposing sexual abuse of children by the Catholic Church does not mean they hate Christians!

                I do not see you advocating for children. That is a joke! You are in total denial about the abuses to children by AA members that World Services has admitted to and had meetings and voted to do NOTHING about it. It sounds like you condone that.

              • ‘Because of your apparent hatred of AA people have problably left good meetings listening to your B.S.’

                Are you aware that women have been getting raped by AA men since the beginning and it has been covered up? Stated by an Ex AA Board Member.

                ALL of your comparisons are just not relevant. AA is very cultish. People sit very close to each other, are hugged on their first meeting, Told to get a “Sponsor”….god knows who they are” Told their best thinking got them there. On and ON.

                None of the places you mention stand and hold hands with strangers and say a Christian prayer and say they are not a religion all in one breath and tell you, you can pick your higher Power….make it the group. ALso no one ends up in those others groups when they are hitting rock bottom.

                • I had never heard any of this before. I have been a member of AA for decades and so has my mom. Not all AA meetings are bad and not all AA meetings are healthy either – you have to choose wisely. I have seen many people CHOOSE to go to the sick ones because they are just as stuck in sick patterns as the others. But I have rarely ever seen people who do it unknowingly. They CHOOSE to ignore the SUGGESTIONS made to them by healthier members of the program. These are adults who are free to make their own choices. AA does not turn anyone away because they believe all people have hope for recovery. That being said I have also experienced some really sick people, behaviors, meetings, meeting places. No one forces anyone to go to these. Theree are sick people everywhere. I was told early on AA is not a hotbed of mental stability. Choose wisely. As for children being abused within the program I would say the only people responsible for that are the parents allowing it to happen. No one is responsible for children but their parents. For awhile when I first began attending AA I had problems with a member stalking me – I experienced the exact opposite of what is being described here – Other members of the group were extremely protective of me where this guy was concerned and very clear to him about it. This girl was in AA for a reason and unfortunately she was unable to turn her life around and make better choices before it was too late. Of course I hope her murderer pays for what he did but I do not see how AA can be held responsible.

                  • Well Marti, AA is very good at covering up crimes and repeating the mantra ” What is said here stays here”. Many people go to ” sick” meetings unknowingly! They are told to trust AA and keep your side of the side walk clean. You are told ” You are too smart” if you question AA / NA and it’s members. Actually Marti people are FORCED to go to sick meetings with sick members . If not they can get thrown back in jail and mandated to even more AA meetings!

                    A large % of most meetings are mentally ill court mandates because even old timers are leaving AA in droves because AA has got so bad. Having court mandates goes against the principles of the Big Book.

                    Why do think child care places, Churches, the Boy Scouts and Youth Sports etc have safety measures in place? Because Marti it is not ONLY the parents responsibility. It takes a village. Organizations are sued all the time because of child neglect and child endangerment. You expect parents to be totally on top of their kids when AA encourages kids and minors to co mingle with pedophiles. AA is plain and simple a sick, twisted, evil pagan cult.

                • a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions – That is a PAGAN.
                  People in AA worship BW and his writings. Judging from your posts – you obviously practice the “program religiously.”
                  Good for you, but we here will continue to do what we can to warn about the potential dangers that exist in the rooms of xa.
                  Do you really want to engage in a stat chat?

          • So you will defend AA as long as you are alive? What about advocating for those that have lost their lives at the hands of AA members? What about advocatiing for the children who have been sexually molested by AA members? They are the ones that need defending and protecting in AA! Help give them a voice, instead of trying to minimize the hell they have been through because of AA policies. Just because because you are educated does not mean you are not brainwashed. In fact many people who get involved in cults have a high IQ. It your type of thinking that prevents AA moving forward and being responsible. One day they will be forced to whether they like it or not.

          • Tammy – how long will it take for you to recover? If you havent had a drink in many years why are you still recovering? and from what? All the negativity repeated in meetings?

            WHy do you believe in what one man wrote in 1936 as your plan for living. Bill W was depressed, a promiscuous man, a scam artist and extremely lazy, I hear from the tour guides at Stepping Stones.

            AA is a very old old paradigm that needs complete updating with seriously new policies for Sexual Harassment and Financial Scamming. AA works for about 1 %.

            If the courts followed the law and sent no one there AA would be 33%. ABout 7 years ago AA started seriously declining.

            Tammy, WOuld you go to your OBGYN today and let him treat you like they did women in 1936. Its the same thing.

      • That is no excuse I am in AA and have seen all sorts of financial and sexual abuse which is why I keep a VERY strict distance -there SHOULD be warnings in AA periodically or before every meeting that talk about what is good emotional boundaries and what isnt. There are no such warnings and this is highly dangerous. Every single professional counselling course I have ever attended ALWAYS starts with clear group boundaries and abuse of these boundaries should be reported -it isn’t good enough to just wipe your hands of abuse

        • One last thing -I have seen women exploiting women for money – men exploiting women -all sorts of bad things happening -there are of course many wonderful people in there but how can you tell the wolves from the sheep? It is sad cos the basic idea is good but there has to be safety checks put in place otherwise its quite anarchic and this is no good actually

        • Exactly Ceri- It is considered well known psych 101 that addicts have boundary issues in the first place! Then you put addicts in a totally unsupervised environment with no boundaries! Talking about a perfect storm for disaster. Good thing you have kept a very strict distance from AA members. Plus many criminals are sent to AA and NA, and they have an inherent boundary issues.

          How long have you been in AA Ceri?

    • Well put. You said all of the things I would have liked to say, but I couldn’t think of because my mind was spinning… Thanks.

  20. I just got out of the most abusive relationship of my life. I meet him at my regular AA mtg. He talked the talk and seemed totally normal. Little did i know hes a ton sicker than any drunk i ever met in a bar. AA gives you such a sense of false security and safety since our common goal is to heal from our past issues. If i had not met this abusive, former meth making drug addict in meeting of alcoholics anonymous i wouldnt have let him into my life. We are taught that the past doesnt matter and past behavior doesn’t count as long as they are working on their issues. Bullshit. I’m lucky to be alive. Sick people in those rooms. Beware.

    • Hi Gina! How long were you in AA? Sounds like you went through the ringer with this AA guy. Thankfully you got out. You are so right that AA gives you this false sense of security. Making you think it is okay to give your number out to anyone you meet at meetings and let people come to your house to give you a ride to meetings. The good ol ‘keep your side of the sidewalk clean” is aimed at encouraging you to let your guard down, and to not tap into your natural instincts when you feel something is not right with a person, situation or AA/NA group.

      There are some very sick puppies in AA and NA meetings. Many love the control aspect of it that they are able to exert over another person like a sponsee. Most do not have that sort of power outside of meetings. By staying in they get to check out new prey all the time. It becomes a game. A very dangerous game. That is what happened to Karla Brada. AA members talked her into letting her guard down. I hope AA is exposed in a big way over this.

      Thanks for the warning, glad you are okay now.

    • HI GINA, Nice to see you here. GLad you are safe and alive. We created a blog for when people leave AA. Have you left or do you still go? http://www.leavingaa.com

      Even when I was 20 years sober I met a man who ripped me off financially and played me and hurt my kids. Although I met him at a music gig, when he told told me he was in AA , I trusted him like he was special. OMG what a lier he was. I left AA after 36 years 18 months ago.

      I’m so happy these blogs are out here now. Thanks you Safetyfirst for this Site!

  21. I’m pleased to read the parents have taken direct action against AA both nationally and locally, it’s time.

    Vulnerable people many in need of professional help, are abused emotionally, physically and financially. My total of 17 years of experience in AA coupled with meetings in nine states attest to the fact.

    • Hi Kelly! Sounds like you do have a lot of insight if you were in AA for 17 years and 9 states. I agree with you that is a good thing this poor family is taking AA to task for the murder of their daughter. It just makes me sick how much AA continues to get away with.

      What were some of your experiences in AA?

  22. So if a man and woman meet and attend the same gym lets say and start dating. If one or the other ends up dead from domestic violents the gym they attended should be held responsible ? I think not.

    • If the gym they attend are telling people that their gym is the only way to fitness, and the gym’s employees go into the jails and mental institutions and tell dangerous mentally deranged felons to come to the gym and a gym member ends up dead because of this. Yes, they are to be held responsible and sued.

      AA gives no warnings to members, in fact just the opposite. They intentially give you a false sense of security, along with the false belief system that AA is the only or you will die.

        • Sorry if the truth hurts. AA refuses to be accountable and take responsiblity for their actions as an organization. AAWS does not follow their traditions either! What about looking at “their part in these situations?” They refuse too. Even though that is what they force down members throats, even in cases of rape!

          It is common sense if you invite thugs and criminals to meetings with vulnerable people and minors, bad things are going to happen! These articles prove it!

    • Jan= your apples vs oranges here are absurd.

      No one in a GYM holds hands with strangers, tells them to find a stranger who is not given a background check to “sponsor” them like a professional counselor. HUGE EGO TRIPPING IN AA with that one. No one in a Gym talks down to you and tells you their darkest secrets out loud in the Gymnasium. Even after the PTA meeting …no one is holding hands with strangers and sitting so dam close to each other.

      I too once drank the kool aid and said stupid stuff to my kids or to a sponsee. There is hope for you too. READ http://www.leavingaa.com or Listen to Safe REcovery on blog talk radio where a long timer of 37 years leaves AA and see ‘s it all for the Bullshit it really is. A stupid 1935 cult…antiquated rigid …whatever!!!

      Even your tone here smells of an arrogant stepper.

  23. I left AA in Saskatoon, Sask., at the age of twenty eight. I had attended meetings, since I was twenty, went to an abused women’s shelter twice, because of a man I met in AA, and other members. I had been raped, and abused, because of them. I no longer have anything to do with the people there, or with any other twelve step group, at all. It has been ten years since I left, and it was the best thing I could have done.

    • Glad to hear you made it out of the AA madhouse in one piece! That is so outrageous you had to go through those terrible times. AA really needs to come with warnings for members. Women advocated groups need to help us take up this cause to prevent sexual assaults against women and minors in AA and NA.

  24. @john63

    Yes I know this and this lawsuit needs to spread like wild fire and it needs to be made the law that no one under 18 can attend any meeting. I have been fighting this crap since 2009. I have 2 websites. http://www.leavingaa.com http://www.stop13stepinaa.wordpress.com They are so full of sh###t!

    We wrote letters, warned them, the stories got worse, they ignored us some more, they tried to shut us up , the LA times wrote AA Pro Puff Pieces and then murders were being covered up and I mean the Los Angeles Times was and is covering this up. SO who is the editor there. Is he a long time AA member. I guess so.

  25. AA Meetings Lead To Murder Trial — Members Testify Man Confessed
    By Marlene Aig June 7th 1994

    AP
    Cox said that he had once been diagnosed with patricidal and matricidal tendencies
    WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. – When Paul Cox spoke at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, the story he told was worse than most: He said he had killed two people during a drunken blackout.

    That is what five AA members testified yesterday at Cox’s trial. The 26-year-old carpenter is charged with stabbing two married doctors as they slept in their bed inside Cox’s old house.

    Cox has pleaded not guilty. Cox’s lawyer, Andrew Rubin, said that if Cox committed the crime, he was temporarily insane. He could get life in prison if convicted.

    The bodies of Lakshman Rao and Shanta Chervu were discovered on New Year’s Day, 1989, in the Larchmont home they had bought from Cox’s family in 1974.

    Rubin said Cox, who lives with his parents, had had nightmares in which the victims’ faces were replaced by those of his parents.

    The AA members testified that Cox told them of the slayings as early as 1990. Two said Cox told them he had found bloody clothes the morning after the killings. A third said Cox thought he had killed his parents.

    Cox wasn’t arrested until last year, when an AA member – not one of the five who testified – went to police. Police then found that Cox’s fingerprints matched a set found in the Chervus’ house.

    The AA members who testified didn’t come forward until they were subpoenaed. They were identified in court only by their first initial, in keeping with the group’s tradition of anonymity.

    Cox often began his AA conversations by saying he thought he had done something “really bad,” and then would talk about the slayings, several members testified.

    One man, Mr. A., said Cox told him there was “a possibility that he had killed some people.”

    “I said, `Like in an accident?’ He said, `No, as in a murder,’ ” Mr. A. said.

    A woman who said she dated Cox, Miss S., began to cry as she described how Cox told her he thought he had killed the two doctors. “He said, `I don’t remember that night. I’m afraid I might have done this,’ ” she said.

    She testified that Cox said when he was in the third grade a psychologist told him he had urges to kill his parents, and that he thought he had killed the Chervus because they were sleeping in a bedroom once used by his parents.

    Rubin had unsuccessfully tried to block the AA members’ testimony, saying Cox’s statements at meetings were privileged communications like those between lawyer and client or priest and confessor.

    http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940607&slug=1914490

    • An AA member killer who was known as early as a third grader to have patricidal and matricidal tendencies to be in AA meetings with minors! Just how many homicidal AA and NA members are sponsoring our teens? What about pedophiles sponsoring our teens in AA?
      Do you know that there are NO rules in AA or NA that exist to prevent this practice?

      • If this guy was suspected to be sociopathic at that young of an age where were his parents when he killed those two innocent people? How about the mental health community that is supposed to treat people like him? Where were they all those years? Who failed this sociopath? Everyone from the time he was a little kid. It’s nice to be able to find a scapegoat. AA isn’t it.

        • The mental health community are famous for sending people to AA and NA. Looks like you are just trying to give AA every excuse to not take any responsibility for creating a perfect storm for their members to commit crimes against each other.

          Because AA is free governments have become totally dependent on sending people to 12 step programs, including our courts with the help and blessing of AA World Services in New York.

          • You have no idea how many people have gotten sober through the court system. The program works if you want it and work it the way it is meant to.

            • Actually many people fail in the court system. The very strict Drug Courts have a high drop out rate and even ones that stay in are often arrested for new crimes. It is also unconstitutional to mandate people to AA without a secular options.

      • Did you know there are no rules or practice guarding against this type of behavior in church, movies, bars, restaurants? There are predators everywhere we go and we sit next to them in all sorts of establishments. That is why it is up to each individual to do their “due diligence” to protect themselves as much as possible.

        • You are so ignorant Pam, of course there are rules in churches and bars and movies. They have to keep there insurance companies happy or they will be cancelled. Insurance companies require churches to supply their safety guidelines etc.

          Sorry, but AA is in a sick class all on it’s own.

  26. MURDER IN THE ROOMS

    By The Fix.

    “What if they confessed to cold-blooded murder? When 20-year-old Bob Ryder came to his sponsor, Floyd Nadeau, with something on his conscience, Nadeau surely had no idea that what he was about to hear would have a lasting impact on both men’s lives.

    There have been many high profile cases of murder prosecutions hinging on admissions of guilt coming to light during AA meetings. This one was among the most biizarre.

    According to Nadeu, Ryder confessed that he had been getting high with a prostitute at his home in Lewiston, Maine when the prostitute started to “irritate him” by constantly complaining about her tough life. The final straw came when Ryder allegedly caught the woman rifling through his wallet. According to Nadeu, Ryder said that he grabbed the nearest thing to hand—a wooden clock—and viciously beat his victim to death with it before concealing the body in the basement of his home.

    Nadeu later told authorities that at first he was highly skeptical that Ryder had murdered anyone. His sponsee, after all, had a history of mental problems, which had led to his being discharged from the marines. But to prove he was telling the truth, Ryder supposedly took Nadeu down into the basement and showed him the decomposing corpse. Still, it would be over two weeks before Nadeu went to the police; when questioned on this seemingly inexplicable delay, Nadeu claimed that he was worried about violating AA’s teachings on confidentiality. ”

    Full Story on Murder In The Rooms…..

    http://www.thefix.com/content/sick-our-secrets4000

  27. The Orange Forum has been very active since this morning, with comments regarding this case. Please keep in mind that Becket, Marti and Alkieathon are AA supporters and never hold the organization responsible for crimes like this. I dont believe these excuses would be tolerated under other circumstances. I have not had the time to read all the comments but thought some of you would be interested in reviewing them.

    http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/2617

    • Thanks Sue for the link! This is incredible news and a real break in exposing Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous. My heart goes out to the family of murder victim Karla Brada.
      I hope they get justice by holding AA accountable.

  28. It’s about damn time this has happened! I hope AA World Services is exposed for the negligence of their responsibilities. This might just bring on more lawsuits. It is the only way AA or NA will ever change. Insurance companies should be taking a real good look at this lawsuit and see what a risk AA and NA really are to insure.

  29. The parents are holding AA accountable by suing them for their failure to protect and warn Karla Brada who met her boyfriend at an AA Meeting. I pray this will bring to light the injustice that has been happening to so many victims at the hands of AA and NA Members. This includes rapes, manslaughter, murder, financial scamming, child abuse, sexual harassment etc.

    AA has voted to do nothing to prevent what happened to victims like Karla Brada by AA members. AA World Services is totally aware of the dangerous nature of meetings. They fail to put in guidelines that companies lile the National Center For Safety Initiatives. http://www.ncsisafe.com/ suggests to keep organizations groups safe from sexual abuse and other harm.

    This country and others need to demand that they start!

  30. Pingback: Lawsuit Filed Against Alcoholics Anonymous World Services Over The Murder Of AA Member Karla Brada | Leaving AA

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