Hollyland Park Sunday Morning at 11:00 A.M. They Smoke In NO SMOKING PARK
Not Anonymous Meetings in Holly Hill Florida for the benefit of Volusia County Intergroup (AA Daytona), Southeast Region of Alcoholics Anonymous, Area 14 which covers districts 8,19, 20, 21, 32, and also Narcotics Anonymous Daytona Meetings. Click on thumbnail pics to enlarge! Daytona AA and NA Meetings with many court mandates.
PHOTOGRAPHERS RIGHTS! http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
BREAKING NEWS: 01/31/13
Price Middle School Shooting: Multiple Injuries In Attack At Southeast Atlanta School
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/price-middle-school-shooting_n_2592672.html
QUESTION:
Are there more shootings happening right now in this country OR are shootings being reported more now in this country?
What is the reason for either situation?
What’s goin on?
The picture at the very top is of some of the members of the ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS ” SUNRISE GROUP.”
On the Sunday morning that this picture was taken, July 3, 2011, the “SUNRISE GROUP,”or gang, showed up and blatantly disobeyed police instruction to maintain a respectful distance from regular park patrons, many of which have been harassed and threatened by it’s group members.
What made it extremely defiant was that they consciously decided to target a group of citizens who they knew had previously been harassed and threatened by members of NARCOTICS and ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS members in and around this park. These citizens had been sitting in a pavilion reading the Sunday paper and drinking their morning coffee for more than an hour before any of their AA gang arrived.This AA group had been regularly using a different pavilion but take the one where these citizens were sitting.
Most of the other pavilions throughout the park were empty and available!
This is not surprising knowing the core members of this group/gang who have insisted on fighting against this community and even their own group conscience. They defiantly continue ignoring their 7th tradition along with the one about not engaging in controversy, even though they always read, at the beginning of every meeting, the line about how their traditions are non-negotiable and how they don’t engage in controversy.
Apparently things like anonymity, respect for the community and respect for core traditions are just rituals of lip service, dogma to be repeated at the beginning of the meetings. It is a poor example that they are setting for the vulnerable, transitional newcomers in recovery and for the reputation of their organization as a whole!
What happened that day on July 3, 2011 when far beyond controversy as a member got up and walked right into a patrons face who had been sitting in the pavilion and literally pushed her camera in the face of a citizen who had previously been harassed and had her life threatened by members of their organizations. Bruce, one of the most defiant controversial organizers of this group, tried to CALL ONE OF THE CITIZENS OUT saying, “LET’S YOU AND ME GO HAVE A TALK AROUND THE CORNER,” but this citizen had witnessed Bruce’s wild, aggressive behavior previously when he was escorted out of City Hall by police for trying to start a fight with another AA member in the middle of a Holly Hill, Florida, City Hall meeting.These meetings are recorded and can be viewed on the city’s website. CONTROVERSY?
This AA group wanted to do what they have always done, which is to come into a pavilion where people are sitting and intimidate them out.These citizens, having been exasperated by years of enduring the audacious entitlement exhibited by these groups, just stayed put ,reading their Sunday paper and conversing.When the AA members couldn’t intimidate these citizens out of the Pavilion the, “SUNRISE GROUP” so-called, went to more extreme measures!
More to come later on this one!
This is a story that needs to be told in its entirety at another time. For now I will just say that after ignoring police instruction and once again majorly harassing citizens, this ALCOHOLICS,” so-called ANONYMOUS” gang started a big scene at the public park because the AA members couldn’t intimidate the citizens to give up their space like they were used to being able to do.
Just this morning an extremely loud lady, whose voice boomed through the whole park, defiantly proclaimed to the park for all the citizens to hear, “welcome to the ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE PARK MEETING.” One could tell by the way she was talking, that she enjoyed the conflict and controversy with the park patrons who have endured so much harassment over the years.
SUNRISE PARK in HOLLY HILL FLORIDA has really been through it with this defiant group. They still won’t pay for their place to meet like their 7th tradition and group conscience asks them to, even though they collect money at the meetings. At war with the locals they Lay claim to the name of this park for their own. They defiantly shout out for all park patrons young and old alike to hear that they are,” THE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE GROUP,” as if they are entitled to claim the park/playground by name as their own to dominate and monopolize as their very own place of business.
With children playing nearby and families out for a nice quiet park experience on Sunday morning I ask,how exactly is one ANONYMOUS while announcing at the top of their lungs for all to hear in a public park/ playground,or any other public place for that matter, that they are,” THE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE GROUP?” They do realize that they have abandoned the ANONYMOUS part by loudly telling their horror stories in a PUBLIC PLACE, don’t they? They apparently don’t care, as they clearly have abandoned so many of their traditions!
I was amazed to find a site criticizing NA/AA. I never thought I would end up an addict. I was one of those that said, “Ahhh those people are just weak/immorral/etc”. Perhaps that is the case. Well, I see every walk of life in there that are recovering not just because o fthe program, but because they are doing the work. The program only works if the individual makes the effort, so you’re hating on a program that actually doesn’t do much other than give people recovery IF they want it. Every day I see people recover. From the homeless guy to soccer moms to successful business people. Rich poor, religious atheist, doesn’t matter.
I’ve also seen many people’s lives turned around, which in turn helps society.
I will close with this. You can hate all you want, you can ridcule us addicts all you want, we have millions around the world that share our problem. And millions that believe in the program because it helped them. And with the things kids are exposed to these days, you can count on the number growing. There’s really no stopping our program.
Sorry to have to break the news to you.
In response to “RIDICULOUS,” hate is a strong word that you will not find used by anyone who supports this public awareness website. Even though the community that started this site have been the victims of harassment and death threats we are not haters. We stand for good, safe, accountable and functional recovery options in a day and age when it has never been more important. This is a pro-accountable, functional recovery site! If you really care, take the time to read what has happened to our community and how out-of-control this situation has become. We cared enough to look at the facts and discovered a total lack of supervision, security or accountability within AA and NA which have no basic safety measures in place for its attendees or anyone else that happens to be around. You might take an honest inventory to look at what could use improving within your organization to better protect people from these things that have been occurring throughout the world. Just read the articles, facts are facts and speak for themselves. We are presenting the facts and for that we endure accusations from people who are defensive and in denial that try to portray us as uncaring haters. This could not be further from the truth. If one really cared about the vulnerable people in need one would be willing to face the facts about the current state of recovery options available to them. Our community has for years, endured 8 meetings a week in this park and have been repeatedly victimized by members of NA/AA groups. These groups of mostly drug court mandates recently released from jail, have inappropriately imposed themselves on our local communities children playing in the playground, talking at the top of their lungs about their drug and alcohol, “horror stories,” which I thought were supposed to be anonymous. They just show up and tell park patrons that they’re having a meeting so find another place to be. They have no right to do this because they refuse to honor their own traditions and reserve the location. This is unacceptable, dysfunctional behavior that undermines true recovery by setting a terrible example and an unsafe environment for the vulnerable recovering addict! The people that support this site care enough about what’s really going on in recovery to take the unpopular position of taking on the facts even if it’s an unpopular position to take. Any time someone has to blow the whistle on a group that has been designed to help people it is understandably met with much resistance and criticism. If an organization is straying from its own purpose, function and traditions then someone has to bring these facts to light!
Hi Ridiculous, You say you are amazed to find a site criticizing NA/AA? Really? Well I guess you missed websites such as http://www.leavingaa.com http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com
http://www.orange-papers.org http://www.stop13stepinaa.wordpress.com plus a slew of others!
I don’t think you find any hate on this site, but a site that advocates to inform people of many disturbing things about 12 step programs. With a 95% failure rate that AA has, there are millions that AA/NA does not work for. Some of the people it has not worked for have been raped, murdered and financially scammed by fellow AA members. There are also countless minors that have been sexually molested and raped by AA/NA members as well.
Also many people dislike having religion forced upon them and telling them they have an incurable disease for life. No wonder so many people leave the program in the 1st month! There are secular alternative that are evidence based, and do not believe you need meetings for life. Alternative like http://www.smartrecovery.org are growing in popularity. The news is getting out about the lack of accountability that the AA/NA has. 12 step programs can be detrimental to your health.
Sorry to have to break the news to you!
I remember one night not long after that guy from NA said that the store better get bulletproof glass, some of us were in the park having something to eat and playing checkers. They all piled in on top of us. They didn’t care that we were there first, they just threw their stuff down and told us they were going to have their meeting there. If they would have rented it we would have gave it up to them but they didn’t.
They got real nasty with us and started cussing and calling us names. After some time they figured they’d better go cause we were going to call the police.
That one lady with the dark hair stood right next to us and started taking pictures of us with her cell phone. That made people feel uneasy because we didn’t know what she was doing standing so close to us taking our pictures like that. Later we find out her name was Danielle and she was the treasurer for all the Daytona NA groups. It’s really funny how they don’t like people taking their pictures even from far away when Danielle and her buddies started it. They had been taking our pictures for weeks before any of us ever took our first picture. Some of us figured we’d better start taking pictures too since they had been giving everybody so much trouble. We might need to show the pictures to the police because we know they just cover for themselves when one of them starts something with the locals.
One night soon after that, a Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous member, with long gray hair and a beard, came to the pavilion where we were playing checkers and threatened everyone saying,
“I’M PACKING AND I’M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT”
One citizen called the police but the man raced off on his scooter. Some of the other Narcotics Anonymous members denied it but we later found out that the man admitted to people that he had done this.
I also remember, the dark-haired Narcotics Anonymous lady you were talking about that took all those pictures of us in the beginning as we ate and played checkers. She and some of her associates were taking pictures of people from all directions. One man showed up with an expensive camera with a telephoto lens to photograph the citizens who were in the park. We would see him at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings on Sundays taking pictures of local citizens. When the Narcotics Anonymous meetings took over right after the Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, that dark-haired lady that you were talking about and her friend’s took more pictures of people in the park.
I also understand why citizens brought their cameras to the park after having had their pictures taken for weeks. These Narcotics and Alcoholics Anonymous people have been giving park patrons so much grief. They act as if they own the park and people have no right to be there! Why don’t they follow their traditions and pay their way to reserve a proper place to hold regularly scheduled organized meetings? Instead, they just show up and try to take the place over by intimidation !
Why would you say that you are certain AA/NA individuals are held accountable for their actions? It is quite clear they are not. They hide behind being anonymous and knowing that AA/NA has their back and wont report crimes to protect them.
Why do you say that AA/NA is not responsible for the controversy? Do they not receive millions of dollars a year from the groups that break traditions? Dont they print the literature and sell it to the groups so the groups can turn around and set up business in parks and churches? The organization likes to talk the talk-but when crimes occur they refuse to do anything. They even encourage minors to go knowing sexual predators are mandated to the very same meetings.How is that responsible or being held accountable?
You state that ” And IF by some chance your child has found or been sentenced to one of these God given programs…perhaps, by the Grace of God they will live, the alternative is bleak.” I would say that it sounds like you feel that 12 step programs are the only way or life is bleak. There are many paths to sobriety-AA is NOT the only way.If a child is sentenced to the “God given programs” lets hope they live to tell about it! Hope that the violent offenders,prostitutes,murderers,13 steppers and sexual offenders will not harm them like they have the countless other children that have been raped and worse at the hands of Alcoholics Anonymous members and Narcotics Anonymous members globally.
Great post! I agree. I have a new site http://www.leavingaa.com
OMG
The AA literature clearly states that the 12 step program is not the only method to achieve sobriety.
Again this is just a bashing session against organizations due to the actions of a few.
Thank you my creator that I have been delivered out of the cynical rantings of people who oppose organizations designed to only help people.
We teach people the spiritual way of letting go of hate such as this otherwise they will be dragged further down into it.
It is understandable that you would be loyal to a group that you attended while overcoming addiction.
Do you care enough about recovery to take an honest look at the possibility that dysfunction may be undermining the groups original intent? Do you care enough about the people in your organization to ensure that they are safe and protected, at such a vulnerable time in their life, with something so basic as accountability?
Are you willing to do a true, thorough “personal inventory” in order to make the necessary adjustments to ensure safety and accountability for your members and the community?
Facing the truth about the international epidemic stemming from dangerous lack of accountability within these organizations is something that could really help make a real difference within the addiction rehabilitation community.
Possibly the creator could give you spiritual guidance in regards to realizing that all organizations, even charity organizations, need to be held accountable in keeping true to their intent of “principle before personality.”
To call people “cynical haters” because they care enough to take the unpopular stand of raising awareness about dangerous dysfunction, even if it is an organization with the good intentions of helping people, is inappropriate and demonstrates a strong bias.
It is even more important to keep a watchful eye on groups that hold themselves up as organizations that will “only help people!” These, admittedly not accountable anonymous organizations, take in people at some of their most vulnerable stages of life.
These vulnerable, transitional people that come to you for help deserve accountability!
Recovery is far too important of an issue in this world to be swept under the rug of blind loyalty and the bias of “our group only helps people.”
Glad to hear you have found peace with a 12 step program. This by no means minimizes that these groups have serious problems.
I do not see the hate you talk about,but I do see loving concern shining through this site in it’s attempt to bring to light the safety concerns
at AA/NA/CA meetings. Maybe a minor will not go to a meeting where there are sex offenders and felons and be harmed by them.
If people are more aware of the dangers,perhaps unsuspecting women wont give out their phone number to every Tom, Dick and Harry even though she is
encouraged to do so at AA meetings.
The organizations of AA and NA have ignored the violence that takes place ‘in the rooms’.They are well aware of it, yet have no safety precautions in place.
In fact they tell inmates to go to a meeting on the very first day of being released from jail. This could be someone who committed armed robbery,rape or murder-yet you think a playground is a proper place to send them? Is it okay for children to hear the rantings of addicts that tell their criminal pasts? Let children have their innocence and not subject them to the dangers or harsh realities of addiction at such tender ages.
Families do not want to be having a picnic in the park just to have a Narcotics Anonymous group overtake their space and announce they are having a meeting. This has happened thousands of times over the years. AA/NA has no right to push local citizens out of pavilions without renting it. It also ignores the 7th tradition.
Plus how anonymous can you really be in a public park? Not very. It goes against the principles of any 12 step program.
As far as your statement that your organization is designed only to help people,well they have a funny way of showing it! Threatening peoples lives and cussing them out is not very helpful. Assaulting them is not helpful.Inviting violent felons to the playground and let people stand up and scream their horror story for young and old to hear-is not helpful.Littering the park with cigarette butts is not helping either. Lying to police is not helpful.Filing false police reports is against the law. Not cooperating with police when an NA member threatened a local business was not helpful. In fact they call that an obstruction of justice.
Not holding the NA member accountable for his actions was not helpful to him either, as he died within weeks of his threat to the store of an overdose. Maybe police intervention might have saved his life.
I am certain that any AA/NA individual is held responsible and accountable for their own actions. The traditions that I ad-hear to are structured and strongly advised if I am to have any recovery and be able to live free from addiction. Anonymity IS the spiritual foundation of ALL our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities….
Sometimes I think…”what if I had a picture, video, recording, etc. of those crazy moments in time when my brain was screaming DOES ANYONE SEE THIS?
So…is the fellowship responsible? Yes when meetings are held in a public park, we are breaking many traditions.
Is the program of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous responsible for this controversy? No. Fellowship and program are two VERY different things
And IF by some chance your child has found or been sentenced to one of these God given programs…perhaps, by the Grace of God they will live, the alternative is bleak.
Satisfied participant of AA since Jan. 16th,2009
allison-I am certain that any AA/NA individual is held responsible and accountable for their own actions. The traditions that I adhear to are structured and strongly advised if I am to have any recovery and be able to live free from addiction. Annonimity IS the spiritual foundation of ALL our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities….
Why are you just parroting the traditions when they don’t make any sense anymore. Written in the 1950′s most of them are lies. AA at every level is accountable. From the group, the individual, the districts, the areas, and NY all can be sued for sexual harassment!
Read Hank Hayes’s new book YOU’VE BEEN LIED TO…
FYI you traditions are just sentences in a book. They are not “policy” for NAWS, INC or AA WS INC., a REAL non- profit corp in the USA are held accountable to all the current laws in the US.
You are not in a secret club. NA is not the CIA , FBI or Secret Service. Bill wrote those crazy traditions 60 years ago. Even the Boys Scouts of America had to step up because they were sued for Sexual Predation.
One day we will look back and see just how archaic these last 60 years have been in Alcoholics Anonymous, once they have to put in safety measures like any other organization or Company!
The fact that the government continues to throw vulnerable people and minors to the wolves including our veterans, shows what a sad state the addiction recovery mindset is in. There is so much pressure to not talk poorly of this cult, that no real honest discussion is allowed to take place without fear of reprisal. Now that is a CULT!!!!!
You sure didnt have a problem scoring dope in public
I didn’t. One park I remember in particular used to be a major druggie hang at night with dealers shouting out what drugs they had for sale. The cops finally raided the place and chased them all out of there. There were at least 200 or 300 people there. Problem is that there are 12step members in bed with the police force in this case as informers and police officers. As informers, it might be “commendable” that they’re helping to turn in criminals, but sooner or later they’re going to get their face known. Where are they going to be then and what are they going to do? So much for live and let live…if they live. As for being a cop well there just too much control in that. I knew an ex-policeman in A.A. that said he’d quit the force for that reason. Hell he even signed a traffic ticket for me to get out of going to school because his name was still in the system and because I was a good looking guy in A.A. with a strong positive message lol. It’s just not good practice to be involved with the police system like that.
Many outsiders just think AA and NA meetings are only attended by sober and drug free individuals. Most do not realize that there is no requirement to have quit drugs or alcohol to attend meetings. You just have to have a desire. In Daytona AA and Daytona NA have problems with drugs and violence at their meetings. The nutcases we see coming to meetings in the park raising hell is pretty scary and the Holly Hill PD do nothing because many of the 12 step members are informers. Also many are in AA themselves. We have had well over 100-200 AA/NA members in our Holly Hill City Parks during many meetings. Thanks for telling us your story- as it shows this is not isolated to just The City Of Holly Hill in Florida.
Star= WOW—-It is so friggen entrenched!!!