DAYTONA AA / NA PHOTOS IN HOLLY HILL PUBLIC PARKS

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting Sunrise Park

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting Sunrise Park

NA Daytona Meetings Sunrise Park Holly Hill Florida

NA Daytona Meetings Sunrise Park Holly Hill Florida January 2016

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Daytona AA Members Smoking in Sunrise Park October 2015

Daytona AA Members Smoking in Sunrise Park October 2015

NA Daytona Meeting Sunrise Park October 2015

NA Daytona Meeting Sunrise Park October 2015

Sunrise Park NA Meeting that refuses to pay rent

Sunrise Park NA Meeting that refuses to pay rent

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting September 2015

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting September 2015

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NA Daytona Meetings Holly Hill Sunrise Park

NA Daytona Meetings Holly Hill Sunrise Park

Narcotics Anonymous Daytona Meeting

Holly Hill Sunrise Park NA Meetings

Narcotics Anonymous Daytona

NA Daytona Meeting Sunday

NA Daytona Meeting Sunday

Just for Today Holly Hill Meeting

Just for Today Holly Hill Meeting

Daytona AA meeting Sunrise Park

Daytona AA meeting Sunrise Park

Sunrise Group Holly Hill Florida

Sunrise Group Holly Hill Florida

Holly Hill Sunrise Group AA Meeting

AA Daytona meeting Sunrise Park

AA Daytona meeting Sunrise Park

NA Meeting Holly Hill Florida

NA Meeting Holly Hill Florida

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting Holly Hill

Just For Today NA Daytona Meeting Holly Hill

Just For Today NA Daytona refuses to pay rent!

Just For Today NA Daytona refuses to pay rent!

NA Members smoking in Sunrise Park Holly Hill

NA Members smoking in Sunrise Park Holly Hill

NA Daytona Meeting

NA Daytona Meeting

Pay Rent People!

Pay Rent People!

Sunrise Park Third Tradition Refuse to pay RentDaytona Narcotics Anonymous  Meetings Holly Hill FloridaHolly Hill Florida 12 Step Meeting in Sunrise Park 2/22/2015

Pay Rent "Just For Today " group like your 7th tradition says to do.

Pay Rent “Just For Today” group like your 7th tradition says to do.

DSCF2321 NA Daytona Park Holly Hill Florida DSCF2319 DSCF2322 DSCF2326 399 Just For Today NA Meeting Smoking In Park40140640239939140440507740825152505NA Daytona Member Smoking What? Just For Today Smoking in Hollyland Park Just For Day NA Meetings Hollyland Park Click photos to enlarge 406 2511 Hollyland Park Sunday Morning at 11:00 A.M. They Smoke In NO SMOKING PARK   Not Anonymous Meetings in Holly Hill Florida for the benefit of Volusia County Intergroup (AA Daytona), Southeast Region of Alcoholics Anonymous, Area 14 which covers districts 8,19, 20, 21, 32, and also Narcotics Anonymous Daytona Meetings. Click on thumbnail pics to enlarge! Daytona AA and NA Meetings with many court mandates.  AA Smoking In No Smoking Park AA Group Smoking In No Smoking Park AA Group SmokingDSCF0912DSCF0556 AA Member after Doing Push Ups In Parking LotAA DaytonaNA meeting taking up parkingAA Daytona morning meetingNA Daytona member threaten the lives of local citizens who rented the park pavilionAA Daytona meeting near playgroundSunrise Park Holly Hill FloridaSunday morning NA Daytona Meeting in Sunrise Park Holly Hill FlNA Daytona meeting in Sunrise ParkNA Daytona member threaten the lives of local citizens who rented the park pavilionNA Member after threatening local citizens,he was allowed to stay at meeting!Court Mandated NA members meeting at playgroundNA Daytona member bringing his black bag of literature to sell in the parkNA Meeting with court mandated members near playground with childrenNA Member took sand from the childrens Playground for their cigarette container.Volusia County Intergroup AA meeting at Sunrise ParkNA Daytona Member hiding license plateNA Daytona Meeting in Sunrise ParkSunrise Park Playground At Night With Children From NA Meeting Playing In The DarkAA Member Never Made It To MeetingNA Meeting At HollyLand Park Holly Hill FloridaVolusia County AA Sunrise ParkSunrise Park Holly Hill Fl Playground At DuskNA PHOTO 25152505 PHOTOGRAPHERS RIGHTS!                            http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

69 thoughts on “DAYTONA AA / NA PHOTOS IN HOLLY HILL PUBLIC PARKS

  1. Why can’t Daytona NA members read NO SMOKING signs? Today this NA member said even though there are no smoking signs in the park including at the pavilions that she thought she could smoke!

    Then it was sad to see a local rehab shipping teenagers to co mingle with court ordered criminals at the NA meeting. I hope they did not talk about wanting to kill people today, there is nothing these people will not about with children and teens in the meetings.

    Even though the local churches are paying to rent the pavilions, Daytona AA and NA refuse to pay rent with the income they receive from those attending.

    Remember the 7th tradition folks? Pay your own way?

    • That was Stewart Marchman Adolescent Rehab program. They are totally part of the stepper cult. I wonder if the parents realize the dangers Stewart Marchman is putting these kids in? How irresponsible. Shame on you!

  2. Why does Daytona AA continue to smoke and litter in a non smoking park? That’s right they think they are above the law. They were cussing up a storm too with lots of kids playing in the playground.

    • get a grip man! would you rather these people, as you call them,…… not try to better their lives, which only benifits the society as a whole? Sorry about the smoking, but call the cops so they can do their job to give a ticket if it bothers you, and these kids you say are in ear shot at the park, should be with their parents perhaps, plus, they probably swear them selves. what would you rather have, a using drug or alcoholic sitting at the park, or people who are trying to arrest their own addictions and be productive members of the society? Thanks to AA I have 14-1/2 yrs. clean and sober. We need to support anything that trys to do good, not sabatoge the only thing that works to help many who feel enslaved with addiction.

      • There is a time and place for everything! A park is NOT a responsible place for Daytona AA or Daytona NA to have their meetings that are filled with court ordered criminals. Should they not put the safety of the children first?

        Why are Daytona NA and AA meetings ignoring park rules and littering Sunrise Park with trash and cig butts?

        Do the right thing and get a room. In the meantime stop cussing and smoking and dealing drugs in the parking lot!

  3. Well it just gets worse at the Daytona NA meetings in Sunrise Park. Last weekend with multiple Daytona NA members speaking loud enough for parents and kids in the playground could hear, many members had no problem telling their ‘share’ filled with saying F@# this B!@# over and over and over. Then most shocking was a Daytona NA ‘Just for Today’ member state the depth of his pain from being ejected from a Daytona NA meeting on Christmas Day. He was so upset and cussing left and right he confessed the desire to murder in his head and felt that strong desire was winning out. Now these feelings are against his peers of NA Daytona that threw him out of the meeting over 7 months ago. ( Yes he was very loud, and parents were looking over at the pavilion wondering what was going on.)

    It is obvious that this man is in great pain with a ton of anger and is not getting the help he needs at NA meetings where they state how sick and twisted they are. This man needs professional help and quick before someone gets hurt. He obviously was trying to warn people. Will NA just cover this up too and look the other way?

    • This is horrible that these steppers are allowed to talk like this near kids and not even pay rent. What if this man talking about killing people decided to go off at the park? Kids and innocent bystanders could get hurt. This just makes me sick.why dont these twisted sick people with killing on the brain get a room and REAL help?

      • Why does this group continue to smoke in the park? I saw a lady smoking at the meeting Sunday and she brought 4 little children with her to the meeting. Why would you bring children to a meeting and let them hear all the bad language and horror stories? Very irresponsible I think and emotionally damaging.

        • Because that particular lady is sick and too lazy to get a baby sitter. I have always strongly felt that children DO NOT belong in any 12 step meetings whatsoever. I feel that the lady should have had her sponsor come by & the two of them could have had the meeting at her home with the kids in another room. What she did tells me that the welfare of her kids just wasn’t real important. I’ve attended many meetings as a former member & those meetings I myself have found that what was said was pretty vulgar & disgusting. I feel sorry for those kids.

          • I am grateful that the kids will be hopefully be getting better care, because mom is trying to get better at least. Think how these kids lived before mom tried to get help! get real lady.

      • As a former 12 stepper who attended meetings, all that the cult members say is:
        Keep coming back.
        As if that helps. I strongly feel that at each & every meeting there needs to be on hand a trained mental health therapist to help talk a troubled member down so to speak. I mean when someone goes on a cruise ship there is always a Doctor on board.
        With alcohol & drugs a problem across all socio as well as economic backgrounds it shouldn’t be difficult to have a mental health provider on hand. Member safety just does not seem to place very high at 12 step meetings for some reason.
        Perhaps a petition could be circulated & brought before a legislator, I don’t know, but what I do know is that you should not give up the fight.

  4. I cannot believe what I heard at a recent NA meeting at Sunrise Park in Holly Hill Florida. This male NA member said ” I am the Mother F*&^ker that has put a gun to someones head, I am the Mother F*&^ker that has had a gun put to my head, I am the Mother F*&^ker that has robbed people and I am the Mother F*&^ker that has been robbed, I am the Mother F*&^ker……..”

    All of this in earshot of the children playing in the nearby playground and locals walking on the exercise trail. So we have robbers and attempted killers sitting in our parks near our children and local citizens because they have no respect for others people’s space? Daytona AA and NA members are some of the most selfish, narcissistic,cheap dangerous people I have come across.

    • Is taping legal when it is a public place? This would make for a great YouTube soundtrack. Or script for a YouTube. You would have to check for legalities of taping under those circumstances.

      • It would make for a great Youtube soundtrack wouldn’t it? I do think the general public would be shocked what is said in open meeting in a public park for all to hear….even children.

        • Stories like that one are examples of why speakers must submit their speaker tape to be a speaker at a conference. Then it is approved by a committee. Once this is done then the speaker is expected to stick to the words that are on their tape. That is why so many speakers have an unchanging story from year to year. I remember getting a Jonny H tape from 10 years prior to his talk that i just heard- then was shocked to find it to be EXACTLY the same.

    • Is there anywhere or any one that you could report this to? Anyway you can have this meeting removed permanently? If I were you I would look into that B/C I can say with all honesty as a former 12 stepper a good majority are sick people and just because these people stop using & drinking doesn’t mean that they’re pillars of society. Please talk with your fellow neighbors & other community members, orchestrate a meeting at someone’s house to figure out how to petition to have the meetings removed.
      Make sure to have you statements/ documentation about just how the meetings at Sunrise Park affects the community of families, local residents. Hey the same thing was done to Petition not to have a Walmart built in the nicer suburbs all across the nation.
      Good luck

        • What is peaceful about threatening peoples lives, using profanity and breaking the no smoking rules? They behave horribly around the children and even local church groups and locals trying to enjoy the park,

  5. What do these 12 step Daytona NA members of Just for Today group do with the money they collect? Because it sure does not go towards paying rent for the pavilion they hog every week chasing park attendees away so they can have their court mandated and other 12 step members tell their horror stories in earshot of the children playground. Plus they bring children and babies to the Daytona NA meetings! How much sense does that make?

      • Of course other people rent it. That is what you are supposed to do when you want the pavilion for a particular time frame. Otherwise you have no right to come in and harass people who are already in the pavilion enjoying it. Daytona AA and Daytona NA members just run them off with a sense of entitlement and not fulfilling the 7th tradition to pay their own way. They are moochers and bullies.

    • Dont judge all members on what a few are doing every group I go to collects the money to purchase coffee for meetings but most of all pay rent just cos they dont doesn’t mean all are the same I dont agree with what they are doing but dont put all of us in their category we are not all the same and NA is not the same as AA yea they have similarities but they are not the same

      • Then tell them to stop or delist them from the groups because they are causing controversy and there for breaking a tradition.

        • You are right Librarian they are breaking tradition and they do not care! But their peers could delist them.

      • Well Zac both AA and NA are guilty of not paying rent. What is upsetting is to know that no one is in charge and any AA or NA meeting can pretty much do what ever it wants with no repercussions from their peers. These groups in the parks can upset an entire community and AA and NA refuse to do anything about it, even though they could if they chose to. But they lie and say they cannot.

  6. This happened not to far away from Holly Hill

    South Daytona man caught watching porn in park, police say

    Police took this photo of Vincent Huling, who they say was watching pornography on his laptop computer at a public park. Police redacted from the picture what was being shown on the computer screen.

    South Daytona Police Department
    By Katie Kustura
    katie.kustura@news-jrnl.com
    Published: Friday, September 19, 2014 at 3:14 p.m.
    Last Modified: Friday, September 19, 2014 at 10:42 p.m.
    A South Daytona man is facing a felony charge after watching pornography on his laptop at a park where children were playing, police said.

    South Daytona officers arrived at Reed Canal Park about 5:45 p.m. Thursday and found Vincent Huling watching porn with headphones on, according to a charging affidavit.

    “Oh, I just clicked on that,” Huling, 56, told the officers when they asked about what he was watching, according to the affidavit.

    A witness told police he’d seen Huling watching porn at the park before, and when the witness approached him about it, Huling said he could do whatever he wanted, according to the affidavit.

    Police said Huling had total disregard for the children in the area and charged him with lewd/lascivious exhibition by a person 18 years of age or older with a victim less than 16, according to the affidavit.

    Huling was being held Friday at the Volusia County Branch Jail with bail set at $2,500, records show.

    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140919/NEWS/140919343/1025?Title=South-Daytona-man-caught-watching-porn-in-park-police-say

  7. Interesting how Daytona AA and Daytona NA enjoy violating Holly hill park rules. I guess they think the laws do not apply to them.

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  9. They love to collect the money, but where does it go? Not to Holly Hill for rent.
    I can’t figure out what they are smoking in that top picture in Hollyland Park NA meeting.

    • Click twice to enlarge the picture on the right of the NA member smoking in the white T-shirt while attending the NA Daytona,”Just For Today” group which takes over Hollyland park every Sunday, refusing to pay rent.

      When you enlarge the picture all the way by clicking on it twice, you can see that’s no cigarette that he’s smoking!

      Is that a glass pipe with brown residue in it that he’s smoking in the park next to the day care center?

  10. One of the pictures is of some of the members of the ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS ” SUNRISE GROUP.”
    On the Sunday morning that this picture was taken, July 3, 2011, the “SUNRISE GROUP,”or gang, showed up and blatantly disobeyed police instruction to maintain a respectful distance from regular park patrons, many of which have been harassed and threatened by it’s group members.

    What made it extremely defiant was that they consciously decided to target a group of citizens who they knew had previously been harassed and threatened by members of NARCOTICS and ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS members in and around this park. These citizens had been sitting in a pavilion reading the Sunday paper and drinking their morning coffee for more than an hour before any of their AA gang arrived.This AA group had been regularly using a different pavilion but take the one where these citizens were sitting.

    Most of the other pavilions throughout the park were empty and available!

    This is not surprising knowing the core members of this group/gang who have insisted on fighting against this community and even their own group conscience. They defiantly continue ignoring their 7th tradition along with the one about not engaging in controversy, even though they always read, at the beginning of every meeting, the line about how their traditions are non-negotiable and how they don’t engage in controversy.

    Apparently things like anonymity, respect for the community and respect for core traditions are just rituals of lip service, dogma to be repeated at the beginning of the meetings. It is a poor example that they are setting for the vulnerable, transitional newcomers in recovery and for the reputation of their organization as a whole!

    What happened that day on July 3, 2011 when far beyond controversy as a member got up and walked right into a patrons face who had been sitting in the pavilion and literally pushed her camera in the face of a citizen who had previously been harassed and had her life threatened by members of their organizations. Bruce, one of the most defiant controversial organizers of this group, tried to CALL ONE OF THE CITIZENS OUT saying, “LET’S YOU AND ME GO HAVE A TALK AROUND THE CORNER,” but this citizen had witnessed Bruce’s wild, aggressive behavior previously when he was escorted out of City Hall by police for trying to start a fight with another AA member in the middle of a Holly Hill, Florida, City Hall meeting.These meetings are recorded and can be viewed on the city’s website. CONTROVERSY?

    This AA group wanted to do what they have always done, which is to come into a pavilion where people are sitting and intimidate them out.These citizens, having been exasperated by years of enduring the audacious entitlement exhibited by these groups, just stayed put ,reading their Sunday paper and conversing.When the AA members couldn’t intimidate these citizens out of the Pavilion the, “SUNRISE GROUP” so-called, went to more extreme measures!

    More to come later on this one!

    This is a story that needs to be told in its entirety at another time. For now I will just say that after ignoring police instruction and once again majorly harassing citizens, this ALCOHOLICS,” so-called ANONYMOUS” gang started a big scene at the public park because the AA members couldn’t intimidate the citizens to give up their space like they were used to being able to do.

    Just this morning an extremely loud lady, whose voice boomed through the whole park, defiantly proclaimed to the park for all the citizens to hear, “welcome to the ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE PARK MEETING.” One could tell by the way she was talking, that she enjoyed the conflict and controversy with the park patrons who have endured so much harassment over the years.

    SUNRISE PARK in HOLLY HILL FLORIDA has really been through it with this defiant group. They still won’t pay for their place to meet like their 7th tradition and group conscience asks them to, even though they collect money at the meetings. At war with the locals they Lay claim to the name of this park for their own. They defiantly shout out for all park patrons young and old alike to hear that they are,” THE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE GROUP,” as if they are entitled to claim the park/playground by name as their own to dominate and monopolize as their very own place of business.

    With children playing nearby and families out for a nice quiet park experience on Sunday morning I ask,how exactly is one ANONYMOUS while announcing at the top of their lungs for all to hear in a public park/ playground,or any other public place for that matter, that they are,” THE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS SUNRISE GROUP?” They do realize that they have abandoned the ANONYMOUS part by loudly telling their horror stories in a PUBLIC PLACE, don’t they? They apparently don’t care, as they clearly have abandoned so many of their traditions!

  11. I was amazed to find a site criticizing NA/AA. I never thought I would end up an addict. I was one of those that said, “Ahhh those people are just weak/immorral/etc”. Perhaps that is the case. Well, I see every walk of life in there that are recovering not just because o fthe program, but because they are doing the work. The program only works if the individual makes the effort, so you’re hating on a program that actually doesn’t do much other than give people recovery IF they want it. Every day I see people recover. From the homeless guy to soccer moms to successful business people. Rich poor, religious atheist, doesn’t matter.

    I’ve also seen many people’s lives turned around, which in turn helps society.

    I will close with this. You can hate all you want, you can ridcule us addicts all you want, we have millions around the world that share our problem. And millions that believe in the program because it helped them. And with the things kids are exposed to these days, you can count on the number growing. There’s really no stopping our program.

    Sorry to have to break the news to you.

    • In response to “RIDICULOUS,” hate is a strong word that you will not find used by anyone who supports this public awareness website. Even though the community that started this site have been the victims of harassment and death threats we are not haters. We stand for good, safe, accountable and functional recovery options in a day and age when it has never been more important. This is a pro-accountable, functional recovery site! If you really care, take the time to read what has happened to our community and how out-of-control this situation has become. We cared enough to look at the facts and discovered a total lack of supervision, security or accountability within AA and NA which have no basic safety measures in place for its attendees or anyone else that happens to be around. You might take an honest inventory to look at what could use improving within your organization to better protect people from these things that have been occurring throughout the world. Just read the articles, facts are facts and speak for themselves. We are presenting the facts and for that we endure accusations from people who are defensive and in denial that try to portray us as uncaring haters. This could not be further from the truth. If one really cared about the vulnerable people in need one would be willing to face the facts about the current state of recovery options available to them. Our community has for years, endured 8 meetings a week in this park and have been repeatedly victimized by members of NA/AA groups. These groups of mostly drug court mandates recently released from jail, have inappropriately imposed themselves on our local communities children playing in the playground, talking at the top of their lungs about their drug and alcohol, “horror stories,” which I thought were supposed to be anonymous. They just show up and tell park patrons that they’re having a meeting so find another place to be. They have no right to do this because they refuse to honor their own traditions and reserve the location. This is unacceptable, dysfunctional behavior that undermines true recovery by setting a terrible example and an unsafe environment for the vulnerable recovering addict! The people that support this site care enough about what’s really going on in recovery to take the unpopular position of taking on the facts even if it’s an unpopular position to take. Any time someone has to blow the whistle on a group that has been designed to help people it is understandably met with much resistance and criticism. If an organization is straying from its own purpose, function and traditions then someone has to bring these facts to light!

    • Hi Ridiculous, You say you are amazed to find a site criticizing NA/AA? Really? Well I guess you missed websites such as http://www.leavingaa.com http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com
      http://www.orange-papers.org http://www.stop13stepinaa.wordpress.com plus a slew of others!

      I don’t think you find any hate on this site, but a site that advocates to inform people of many disturbing things about 12 step programs. With a 95% failure rate that AA has, there are millions that AA/NA does not work for. Some of the people it has not worked for have been raped, murdered and financially scammed by fellow AA members. There are also countless minors that have been sexually molested and raped by AA/NA members as well.

      Also many people dislike having religion forced upon them and telling them they have an incurable disease for life. No wonder so many people leave the program in the 1st month! There are secular alternative that are evidence based, and do not believe you need meetings for life. Alternative like http://www.smartrecovery.org are growing in popularity. The news is getting out about the lack of accountability that the AA/NA has. 12 step programs can be detrimental to your health.

      Sorry to have to break the news to you!

    • Aw, ain’t you just precious? There are other meetings you can attend that are not out in the open like this, where you have to flaunt your spiritual giantness. But, I suppose, if you need to inflate your own ego by this type of activity, then well, lets just hope that your fragile little ego won’t be bruised by those tough bullies wanting to have as much right to the park as your self. After all, now that you have shown yourself to be the “Hero that ran out of the burning building,” then we all must bow down to thy holy presence.

        • Open meetings are just that – open to anyone in the community, alcoholic or not. There is no expectation of anonymity and they can be in a park if they so choose. AA and NA have picnics, parties and any number of other events that can take place outdoors. But I don’t think I would want my photograph taken by someone that is just trying to be mean spirited. Are they taking photos of other groups that assemble in the park?

  12. I remember one night not long after that guy from NA said that the store better get bulletproof glass, some of us were in the park having something to eat and playing checkers. They all piled in on top of us. They didn’t care that we were there first, they just threw their stuff down and told us they were going to have their meeting there. If they would have rented it we would have gave it up to them but they didn’t.

    They got real nasty with us and started cussing and calling us names. After some time they figured they’d better go cause we were going to call the police.

    That one lady with the dark hair stood right next to us and started taking pictures of us with her cell phone. That made people feel uneasy because we didn’t know what she was doing standing so close to us taking our pictures like that. Later we find out her name was Danielle and she was the treasurer for all the Daytona NA groups. It’s really funny how they don’t like people taking their pictures even from far away when Danielle and her buddies started it. They had been taking our pictures for weeks before any of us ever took our first picture. Some of us figured we’d better start taking pictures too since they had been giving everybody so much trouble. We might need to show the pictures to the police because we know they just cover for themselves when one of them starts something with the locals.

    • One night soon after that, a Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous member, with long gray hair and a beard, came to the pavilion where we were playing checkers and threatened everyone saying,

      “I’M PACKING AND I’M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT”

      One citizen called the police but the man raced off on his scooter. Some of the other Narcotics Anonymous members denied it but we later found out that the man admitted to people that he had done this.

      I also remember, the dark-haired Narcotics Anonymous lady you were talking about that took all those pictures of us in the beginning as we ate and played checkers. She and some of her associates were taking pictures of people from all directions. One man showed up with an expensive camera with a telephoto lens to photograph the citizens who were in the park. We would see him at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings on Sundays taking pictures of local citizens. When the Narcotics Anonymous meetings took over right after the Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, that dark-haired lady that you were talking about and her friend’s took more pictures of people in the park.

      I also understand why citizens brought their cameras to the park after having had their pictures taken for weeks. These Narcotics and Alcoholics Anonymous people have been giving park patrons so much grief. They act as if they own the park and people have no right to be there! Why don’t they follow their traditions and pay their way to reserve a proper place to hold regularly scheduled organized meetings? Instead, they just show up and try to take the place over by intimidation !

  13. Why would you say that you are certain AA/NA individuals are held accountable for their actions? It is quite clear they are not. They hide behind being anonymous and knowing that AA/NA has their back and wont report crimes to protect them.

    Why do you say that AA/NA is not responsible for the controversy? Do they not receive millions of dollars a year from the groups that break traditions? Dont they print the literature and sell it to the groups so the groups can turn around and set up business in parks and churches? The organization likes to talk the talk-but when crimes occur they refuse to do anything. They even encourage minors to go knowing sexual predators are mandated to the very same meetings.How is that responsible or being held accountable?

    You state that ” And IF by some chance your child has found or been sentenced to one of these God given programs…perhaps, by the Grace of God they will live, the alternative is bleak.” I would say that it sounds like you feel that 12 step programs are the only way or life is bleak. There are many paths to sobriety-AA is NOT the only way.If a child is sentenced to the “God given programs” lets hope they live to tell about it! Hope that the violent offenders,prostitutes,murderers,13 steppers and sexual offenders will not harm them like they have the countless other children that have been raped and worse at the hands of Alcoholics Anonymous members and Narcotics Anonymous members globally.

      • OMG

        The AA literature clearly states that the 12 step program is not the only method to achieve sobriety.

        Again this is just a bashing session against organizations due to the actions of a few.

        Thank you my creator that I have been delivered out of the cynical rantings of people who oppose organizations designed to only help people.

        We teach people the spiritual way of letting go of hate such as this otherwise they will be dragged further down into it.

        • It is understandable that you would be loyal to a group that you attended while overcoming addiction.

          Do you care enough about recovery to take an honest look at the possibility that dysfunction may be undermining the groups original intent? Do you care enough about the people in your organization to ensure that they are safe and protected, at such a vulnerable time in their life, with something so basic as accountability?

          Are you willing to do a true, thorough “personal inventory” in order to make the necessary adjustments to ensure safety and accountability for your members and the community?

          Facing the truth about the international epidemic stemming from dangerous lack of accountability within these organizations is something that could really help make a real difference within the addiction rehabilitation community.

          Possibly the creator could give you spiritual guidance in regards to realizing that all organizations, even charity organizations, need to be held accountable in keeping true to their intent of “principle before personality.”

          To call people “cynical haters” because they care enough to take the unpopular stand of raising awareness about dangerous dysfunction, even if it is an organization with the good intentions of helping people, is inappropriate and demonstrates a strong bias.

          It is even more important to keep a watchful eye on groups that hold themselves up as organizations that will “only help people!” These, admittedly not accountable anonymous organizations, take in people at some of their most vulnerable stages of life.

          These vulnerable, transitional people that come to you for help deserve accountability!

          Recovery is far too important of an issue in this world to be swept under the rug of blind loyalty and the bias of “our group only helps people.”

        • Glad to hear you have found peace with a 12 step program. This by no means minimizes that these groups have serious problems.
          I do not see the hate you talk about,but I do see loving concern shining through this site in it’s attempt to bring to light the safety concerns
          at AA/NA/CA meetings. Maybe a minor will not go to a meeting where there are sex offenders and felons and be harmed by them.
          If people are more aware of the dangers,perhaps unsuspecting women wont give out their phone number to every Tom, Dick and Harry even though she is
          encouraged to do so at AA meetings.

          The organizations of AA and NA have ignored the violence that takes place ‘in the rooms’.They are well aware of it, yet have no safety precautions in place.
          In fact they tell inmates to go to a meeting on the very first day of being released from jail. This could be someone who committed armed robbery,rape or murder-yet you think a playground is a proper place to send them? Is it okay for children to hear the rantings of addicts that tell their criminal pasts? Let children have their innocence and not subject them to the dangers or harsh realities of addiction at such tender ages.

          Families do not want to be having a picnic in the park just to have a Narcotics Anonymous group overtake their space and announce they are having a meeting. This has happened thousands of times over the years. AA/NA has no right to push local citizens out of pavilions without renting it. It also ignores the 7th tradition.

          Plus how anonymous can you really be in a public park? Not very. It goes against the principles of any 12 step program.

          As far as your statement that your organization is designed only to help people,well they have a funny way of showing it! Threatening peoples lives and cussing them out is not very helpful. Assaulting them is not helpful.Inviting violent felons to the playground and let people stand up and scream their horror story for young and old to hear-is not helpful.Littering the park with cigarette butts is not helping either. Lying to police is not helpful.Filing false police reports is against the law. Not cooperating with police when an NA member threatened a local business was not helpful. In fact they call that an obstruction of justice.

          Not holding the NA member accountable for his actions was not helpful to him either, as he died within weeks of his threat to the store of an overdose. Maybe police intervention might have saved his life.

  14. I am certain that any AA/NA individual is held responsible and accountable for their own actions. The traditions that I ad-hear to are structured and strongly advised if I am to have any recovery and be able to live free from addiction. Anonymity IS the spiritual foundation of ALL our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities….
    Sometimes I think…”what if I had a picture, video, recording, etc. of those crazy moments in time when my brain was screaming DOES ANYONE SEE THIS?
    So…is the fellowship responsible? Yes when meetings are held in a public park, we are breaking many traditions.
    Is the program of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous responsible for this controversy? No. Fellowship and program are two VERY different things
    And IF by some chance your child has found or been sentenced to one of these God given programs…perhaps, by the Grace of God they will live, the alternative is bleak.
    Satisfied participant of AA since Jan. 16th,2009

    • allison-I am certain that any AA/NA individual is held responsible and accountable for their own actions. The traditions that I adhear to are structured and strongly advised if I am to have any recovery and be able to live free from addiction. Annonimity IS the spiritual foundation of ALL our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities….

      Why are you just parroting the traditions when they don’t make any sense anymore. Written in the 1950’s most of them are lies. AA at every level is accountable. From the group, the individual, the districts, the areas, and NY all can be sued for sexual harassment!

      Read Hank Hayes’s new book YOU’VE BEEN LIED TO…

    • FYI you traditions are just sentences in a book. They are not “policy” for NAWS, INC or AA WS INC., a REAL non- profit corp in the USA are held accountable to all the current laws in the US.

      You are not in a secret club. NA is not the CIA , FBI or Secret Service. Bill wrote those crazy traditions 60 years ago. Even the Boys Scouts of America had to step up because they were sued for Sexual Predation.

      • One day we will look back and see just how archaic these last 60 years have been in Alcoholics Anonymous, once they have to put in safety measures like any other organization or Company!

        The fact that the government continues to throw vulnerable people and minors to the wolves including our veterans, shows what a sad state the addiction recovery mindset is in. There is so much pressure to not talk poorly of this cult, that no real honest discussion is allowed to take place without fear of reprisal. Now that is a CULT!!!!!

      • I didn’t. One park I remember in particular used to be a major druggie hang at night with dealers shouting out what drugs they had for sale. The cops finally raided the place and chased them all out of there. There were at least 200 or 300 people there. Problem is that there are 12step members in bed with the police force in this case as informers and police officers. As informers, it might be “commendable” that they’re helping to turn in criminals, but sooner or later they’re going to get their face known. Where are they going to be then and what are they going to do? So much for live and let live…if they live. As for being a cop well there just too much control in that. I knew an ex-policeman in A.A. that said he’d quit the force for that reason. Hell he even signed a traffic ticket for me to get out of going to school because his name was still in the system and because I was a good looking guy in A.A. with a strong positive message lol. It’s just not good practice to be involved with the police system like that.

        • Many outsiders just think AA and NA meetings are only attended by sober and drug free individuals. Most do not realize that there is no requirement to have quit drugs or alcohol to attend meetings. You just have to have a desire. In Daytona AA and Daytona NA have problems with drugs and violence at their meetings. The nutcases we see coming to meetings in the park raising hell is pretty scary and the Holly Hill PD do nothing because many of the 12 step members are informers. Also many are in AA themselves. We have had well over 100-200 AA/NA members in our Holly Hill City Parks during many meetings. Thanks for telling us your story- as it shows this is not isolated to just The City Of Holly Hill in Florida.

    • That would be true of closed meetings, but this meeting is an open meeting, as indicated on the legend through intergroup. That means that anyone in the community may attend, alcoholic or not. There is no expectation of anonymity. I don’t see what tradition is being compromised.

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