RUDE AWAKENING DAYTONA BEACH AA / NA STORIES

Citizens of our community in Holly Hill Florida have long complained of being overwhelmed and harassed by Daytona Narcotics Anonymous and Daytona Alcoholics Anonymous members who have been attending organized meetings in Holly Hill’s Sunrise Park. They advertise the park as their meeting place to conduct business. They do this without permits or payment to rent the pavilion, as their traditions would have them do. Every day of the week and twice on Sundays for approximately 17 years, the parking facility and main pavilion have been overrun during family prime time. These groups can have as many as 100 or more addicts. Many are drug court mandated violent felons recently released from prison. They are court ordered to attend 12 step AA and NA meetings to meet probation requirements and avoid going back to jail. Some of these individuals have a wide array of multiple charges including but not limited to crimes like robbery, home invasion, carjacking, purse snatching, wife beating, murder, rape  and prostitution etc. They show up and repeatedly asked the citizens in Sunrise Park “Is this the Daytona Narcotics Anonymous or Daytona Alcoholics Anonymous meeting?”

We have asked longtime members and chairpersons, “If you’re not concerned about the anonymity of your attendees would you at least try to understand our concerns?” Our children and other non-addicted citizens are constantly exposed to large, unsupervised, high risk groups telling their horror stories for all to hear. One of the group’s original facilitators from Alcoholics Anonymous confessed “Sunrise Park has always been very popular because smoking is permitted.”

  After years of citizens complaining of harassment etc. problems escalated on May 31, 2010, sending shock waves through our community. At approximately 6:45 PM two young men came into the community store across from Sunrise Park and began grabbing and tossing merchandise around with total disregard. They were extremely arrogant and verbally abusive. I always try to gently bring these people around with something like, “Can I help you find something?”, or “If you don’t mind we have a lot of children coming into the store, please be considerate.” Most say, “Okay, no problem”, and conduct their business. Those that do not and become more abusive are calmly told “I don’t need this, please leave.” The practice of not letting abusive customers run off the good ones helps to improve the community store. These two did not get it and asked to leave.

  My friend and I watched as they crossed the street to Daytona The Next Step Daytona Narcotics Anonymous meeting in Sunrise Park. There was a disruption in the crowd. One of the men struggled with the lady in the parking lot. She tried to prevent them from leaving but the man shoved her, pulled their car door shut and they recklessly sped out of the parking lot. As they passed the store, they yelled out “you mother f*#*ers better get bulletproof glass!” Whether you own a business or not an angry hot head threatening to possibly come back with a firearm should not be totally disregarded. So we called the Holly Hill City police and asked them to send out an officer. When one came, we expressed we would appreciate if he would try to identify this individual. Hopefully, he could be contacted and advised that it’s not a good idea to threaten to shoot up a store! He should be informed that if in fact the store did get shot up, he would be first on the list of suspects. So the officer, my friend and I went over to the meeting of approximately 65 people. As we approached we witnessed a commotion with chairpersons and the lady who was involved in the scuffle. Two longtime members who were chairing The Next Step meeting came forward. I knew them both well as they had shopped at the store regularly. When they were asked to help us in identifying the man, they first said, “We don’t know who you’re talking about.” I replied, “Yes you do, and he threatened to shoot up the store!” Then, Phil, who chairs The Next Step meeting, said with a grin, “Okay, I know who you’re talking about but we are anonymous so….” I just looked at him in disbelief. “Hey Phil”, “it’s me”, I said. “We just need to talk to this guy.” He just smiled and refused to cooperate. First of all, I felt extremely betrayed by someone I had known on a friendly basis for years. For all he knew this man was fully capable of carrying out his threat. A community member and local business had been threatened by a Daytona Beach NA member. Phil, who chairs The Holly Hill Next Step meeting, refused to cooperate with the Holly Hill police. He just stood there in front of approximately 65 some people and lied, saying, “We don’t know who you’re talking about; well okay we do but WE ARE ANONYMOUS SO…!” The irony of his translation of anonymous troubles me! Remember, this took place at our public park’s main pavilion, just steps from the playground.

 

Approximately 2 weeks later, Phil came into the store, totally unapologetic, with that same inappropriate grin. “Well”, he said, “you don’t have to worry about that guy anymore, he died of an overdose!” The hair on my arms and neck stood straight up! This young man fell through the cracks and could have possibly been helped with proper intervention.

Things were about to get much worse. Longtime sponsors would make death threats to community members at a neighborhood meet and greet in which the community had properly rented the pavilion. This was just part of what was to come in the following months. This incident and those that would follow forced us to try to find answers for some very important questions concerning Daytona Narcotics Anonymous and Daytona Alcoholics Anonymous. Questions like, how do they effectively deal with groups that do not follow their own guidelines and traditions? They described themselves as autonomous, having no leaders, security or counselors present at meetings. Who then, is responsible or accountable when things get out of control? We have contacted their local, regional, national and international headquarters. The only answer we get concerning accountability is that there is none! Groups are basically free to do as they please and still qualify as legitimate.

This marked a true wake-up call for me. The developments that would soon unfold are almost beyond belief. They clearly reveal extreme dysfunction and denial fueled by a strong sense of self-righteous entitlement. We have learned much over the last year about these organizations. When we have called their headquarters to bring light to these groups blatant disregard for their traditions and our communities concerns we are only told “We can’t do anything, it’s a police matter!” This is where what happens is truly beyond belief. There is a strong, blind bias in favor of these organizations. They are enabled in their dysfunction and emboldened as they see no need to cooperate with police when citizens are threatened. Thus, they are given free rein to operate dangerously unchecked. When there is a problem the police blame the citizens for simply being in the park.

116 thoughts on “RUDE AWAKENING DAYTONA BEACH AA / NA STORIES

  1. Daytona AA continue to refuse to pay rent, refuse to follow park rules and not smoke and bully the locals. Nothing has changed except now people are more aware of how dangerous AA and NA are, especially in the Daytona area.

    Check out http://www.the13thstepfilm.com/ Documentary about the dangers in AA.

  2. AA has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with not drinking. It is also NOT a support group. It is a sick cult. The meeting attendees/members use hundreds of basic and effective mind contol techniques which are practiced and practiced. (No it has nothing yo do with the religion Christianity, which people sometimes assume.) it is a dangerous cult. It ruins lives. It ruins minds, hope, sanity, families… It tries to kill … It is so beyond what I could ever have dreamed up. I escaped the crazy house of lies.

    • Having read all this, and more from internet, and lives shattered by those who rip you to pieces for not following the AA RULES!, and first hand knowledge of the “herd” mentality, a working under current of law breaking groups wit th a hidden agenda under the blanket of anonymous. I hope someone is watching the store. And no, I am not paranoid, observant……

    • Do words have meaning?
      Do we ever use words, thinking we know what they mean?
      Defining the words “religion” and “cult” is fraught with difficulty. Many attempts have been made. Many people focus on a very narrow definition that matches the individual’s own religion, but few others.
      There are numerous definitions of the words cult and religion, yet people toss their banter about as though there was one clear definition.
      During the seventies, in the mass media, and among average citizens, “cult” gained an increasingly negative connotation, becoming associated with things like brainwashing, and sexual abuse.
      In his book “The Varieties of Religious Experience”, the psychologist William James defined religion as “the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine”. By the term “divine” James meant “any object that is godlike, whether it be a concrete deity or not” to which the individual feels impelled to respond with solemnity and gravity.

      Yet, many view religion as a social, or cultural system of behaviors and practices, mythologies and world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to an order of existence.

      Some definitions equate “religion” with “Christianity,” and thus define two out of every three humans in the world as non-religious.

      It’s been a subject of interest to philosophers and theologians for some time…

      Oh, the “anonymity tradition” clearly states:
      Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.
      It sounds like you don’t find this group attractive, but neither are there complaints of evangelical promotion. Which really is a moot point, as anonymity relates to “press, radio, and films”.

    • I escaped 16 days ago. I attended for four yrs. Last year I was like…omg somethings wrong. I felt overwhelmed by the thought of being indoctrinated by a cult!! Repetitive readings and mind control and sexual harassment. I was terrified to leave bc I was told I would die if I did. I also was told to have no friends outside of recovery. Something is wrong!!!

      • I am sure it must have difficult. Telling people that they will die if they leave is such mental abuse and sure sign of a cult. Do you know have friends outside the cult of AA? There are also chat rooms if you would like to talk with others or free reading material at http://www.smartrecovery.org . SMART Recovery is not a 12 step program.

        Not everyone feels a need for any program. Getting involved in things you enjoy, hobbies, reconnecting with family and ones career can be very helpful. Of course leading a healthier lifestyle helps too.

        AA does not care if people smoke themselves to death or eat poorly, as long as they are in AA and not drinking is all they care about.

        Another helpful website for those leaving is http://www.leavingaa.com

    • Well I do have a comment – This whole situation was terrible. A very similar thing was happening in my home town. Ppl become members then think that makes them above the law.

  3. Why doesDaytona AA and Daytona NA continue to not pay rent and continue to smoke in our beautiful park????

    They run off people in the pavilions when they come to start a meeting.

    It does not matter if a family is sitting there or other people, they just take over and swarm anyone telling them they are having their meeting!

  4. NA Daytona continue to not pay rent and run people out of the pavilions so they can have there meetings even though they refuse to pay.

  5. AA Daytona are still harassing local citizens, yelling at them, and make threatening remarks. On top of that they are still smoking in the park. They were there today smoking away and giving locals a hard time. What a disgrace.

  6. Wow. I went to Embry-Riddle in the early ’80s when the only obvious problems in Daytona were the still prevalent white racism and Bike Week. I guess the whole country is just slowly going bad.

  7. I Wonder how many times Jeffrey Hanks was mandated to Daytona AA or Daytona NA for his 42 arrests over the years? Maybe all those arrested will all get mandated to Daytona AA and NA meetings in Holly Hill Florida and end up in Sunrise Park or Hollyland parks and playgrounds telling their horror stories.

    7 arrested in Holly Hill tow company family drug ring

    By Lyda Longa & Katie Kustura
    lyda.longa@news-jrnl.com katie.kustura@news-jrnl.com
    Published: Saturday, May 10, 2014
    HOLLY HILL — Carswell Avenue towing and auto sales businesses run by a local family were raided Friday morning following a lengthy investigation into the family’s other line of work — illegal prescription drug dealing, an official said.

    Big Boyz Drug Bust
    Chasen Automotive Center, at 909 Carswell Ave., and Big Boyz Towing, at 845 Carswell Ave. — as well as a house in Holly Hill and one in DeLand — were the backdrops for the searches conducted Friday by the Volusia Bureau of Investigation and the Holly Hill Police Department.

    Both businesses, in the heart of the city’s manufacturing and service district, are owned by Jeffrey Hanks who along with several family members is facing charges after authorities uncovered a large prescription drug ring investigators dubbed the Big Boyz Family, Volusia County sheriff’s spokesman Gary Davidson said.

    Investigators say Hanks was the ringleader of the group. Court records show Hanks was arrested 42 times between 1995 and 2012 — he was arrested every year except for 2005 — and has at least one felony conviction for a burglary. He was also the target of at least two violent attacks when in 2003 he was stabbed three times by a robber and in 2012 he was shot at by a passenger in a car.

    Davidson said Hanks’ group — which included his wife Stephanie Hanks and her 17-year-old son — dealt pills in Central Florida, and in one year’s time were able to obtain in excess of 16,000 prescription pills that were then sold for profit. Hanks is charged with conspiracy to traffic in oxycodone, conspiracy to traffic in hydromorphone, trafficking in hyrdromorphone, possession of a conveyance use for the sale of a controlled substance, delivery of carisoprodol, conspiracy to deliver carisoprodol and unlawful use of a two-way communications device to facilitate the commission of a crime. He was being held on $625,000 bail.

    Aside from the drug investigation launched by the VBI — a conglomeration of local, state and federal agencies including the FBI — the Holly Hill Police Department is looking at Chasen in a separate query that involves fraud, said Police Chief Steve Aldrich.

    VBI investigators began their searches before sunup. Holly Hill investigators meanwhile started theirs in the early afternoon.

    Aldrich said his department’s investigation involves “multiple victims” who purchased cars and boats from Chasen. The investigation has been going on for about a month, he said.

    While he could not discuss any of the details of the probe, Aldrich hinted that the issue with Chasen involves “the ways in which the transactions were handled and some issues that have come back (because of those transactions).”

    The investigation, Aldrich said, was prompted by one of Chasen’s customers who complained to police about their particular transaction. Aldrich declined comment when asked whether Hanks was part of the query. He did say investigators are looking “at other people” who work at Chasen.

    There were no employees at Chasen on Friday morning when the searches occurred. There were three boats on trailers in the parking lot, as well as a metallic brown Cadillac.

    A Holly Hill police sergeant was parked in front of the business just before noon Friday waiting for other investigators to arrive with a search warrant signed by a judge.

    Two residences — one at 900 State Ave. in Holly Hill and one at 120 Mohawk Ave. in DeLand — were also searched, Davidson said. Local, state and federal authorities spent about 20 months investigating Hanks, his family and friends.

    Hanks’ wife Stephanie Hanks faces similar charges to her husband and was being held on $645,000 bail. Her son David Balfour, 17, was charged with a felony drug offense and held on $55,000 bail. Four other people investigators say were linked to the operation were also arrested: Cassandra Butler, 29 of Daytona Beach, Steven Davis, 34, of DeLand, Terry Ellis, 40, of Daytona Beach and Michael Robinson, 35, of Osteen.

    Davidson said more arrests are expected. No one has yet been arrested in the Holly Hill case.

    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140510/NEWS/140509455/1025?p=all&tc=pgall

  8. Crime, The Law And Your Safety
    Holly Hill police chief retiring
    Friday, January 31, 2014 by Lyda Longa

    The day Holly Hill Police Chief Mark Barker celebrates his 31st anniversary with the cop shop, will be the last day he sits at his desk as the top cop.

    Barker, 53, is retiring on March 28 after 31 years with Holly Hill Police. And his emotions, to say the least, are definitely mixed.

    “I’m not worried so much about the 28th, it’s the 29th I’m worried about when I wake up and have no where to be,” Barker said. “This is all I know.”

    Barker put in his official retirement papers

    on Jan. 24 and he said he’s had a lump in his throat ever since. Sure the job has been the traditional ups and downs: “We always see people at their worst.” But of course the job has also given Barker the opportunity to make a real difference in Holly Hill.

    “I’ve literally been on call for 30 years,” he said.

    The Daytona Beach News-Journal will write about Barker’s departure as it gets closer to his retirement.

    But at least until then, the chief will continue “just plugging through” as he is fond of telling reporters who talk to him daily.

    http://crime.blogs.news-journalonline.com/10786/holly-hill-police-chief-getting-ready-to-head-out-after-31-years/

    • Just a few more days my friends and this chief of police will be outta Holly Hill PD. Hope Captain Aldrich can turn around this police department around after Barkers tenure of incompetence.

      We still have dangerous court mandated 12 steppers in Sunrise Park and Centennial Park. They refuse to pay their way. They litter the park with cigarette butts, even though smoking is not allowed in the parks. They do not help Daytona AA and NA’s already poor reputation.

    • Yes, it was quote bothersome to those of us just trying to enjoy ourselves without listening to sob stories. Also, the chased us around trying to preach God’s word and handing out fliers. All up and down the boardwalk. Some date night THAT was.

      • Seems to be the trend in many areas of the country. However, there are some parts of the country, where the majority of AA people still try to maintain their anonymity and avoid these types of groups and meetings. However, NA seems to think that being clean from drugs (by their own admission) they deem to be a problem. There are many that to this day are still using marijuana and alcohol and think that just because they no longer use cocaine and opiates, that they can feel free to do any thing else they want to, despite what they claim.

        • As it was said, AA NA SA etc. is a sub culture of those who really try and those who really try to take advantage of everyone and everything. I think the first step in AA should be “First do no harm”.

        • Wow, you are grossly misinformed, in fact in NA readings it goes over how alcohol is a drug and if you use marijuana or alcohol you are NOT considered clean. What the OP is describing is sad and shouldn’t happen, but as someone who attends multiple NA meetings regularly these things never happen where I live. In NA were taught that using drugs is a side effect of our disease of addiction, and that we must have a spiritual awakening to become a better person. It’s taught me to not judge people, to be a kind and caring person and that no addict ever has to use again. On the 13th step, I have never seen that happen for myself, and honestly if a girl told me or another member about another member harrasing her then I and others would defintely take action. We speak in meetings all the time about being better people and not womanizing, so if I saw someone trying to take advantage of the most vulnerable person possibly(a new to being clean addict) I would certainly take action.

          • Then you are blind because EVERY meeting that i have ever attended of either fellowship has had at least one oldtimers who trolled for newcommers to take advantage of. In my area it was 3 female oldtimers who were the abusers of newcomer males.

            Sadly this type of abusf of vulnerable adults and minors who attend aa can be both ways.

            Now how about you research the archives of this website and start reading all the news reports of far worse things that have happened within the doors.

            Librarian

            • Then you are blind because EVERY meeting that i have ever attended of either fellowship has has had at least one oldtimers who trolled for newcommers to take advantage of. In my area it was 3 female oldtimers who were the abusers of newcomer males.

              Sadly this type of abuse of vulnerable adults and minors who attend aa can be both ways.

              Now how about you research the archives of this website and start reading all the news reports of far worse things that have happened within the doors.

              Are we misinformed?

              ‘I think not’

              Librarian

  9. AA, NA really ARE CULTS. They are dangerous places. Instead of obsessing about the details of your encounters with these unsavory people, energy would be better spent studying/learning about CULT DYNAMICS. Cults and their agendas are infiltrating every corner of our culture. Cults use techniques to HIJACK PEOPLE’S MINDS, to impair judgment so that people can be MANIPULATED. Then the manipulated victims can be persuaded to do all kinds of things that are not beneficial to themselves, but rather to other people, such as work for them for free, or be influenced into prostitution or other crime. You are right that these groups are full of sketchy people. They are run by the same folks who sent you there to begin with… The abusers, the users, the manipulators. There are a lot of victims in these 12 step programs. Innocent people get sent there to be abused all over again.

    • Me again… Then share what you have learned with the community about cult abuse. You will find abusers coming out of the woodwork to deny such things exist — from every direction. You may even find yourself being called “crazy”. Cult abuse is becoming a way of life for many many people. The innocent among us need to wake up. These are people who are already manipulated to the point of not being in control of themselves any more, who are then sent out into the community to victimize other people.

    • Wow, of course there are always going to be some bad apples but the vast majority of people I have met at meetings are just regular people looking for support on how to stay clean and serene. I would never wish anyone to go through addiction, but if a loved of yours went through it you would see that staying clean with no help is next to impossible. NA provides a safe place for people to share their pain and hope with each other, the love I was showed when I first came around is something I could never explain, imagine you go your whole life feeling alone and then you meet 50 total strangers who have gone through what you have and all they want to tell you is how much they love you and give you a hug. I don’t doubt that some members go just to get their papers signed and have poor intentions but the vast majority has surrendered to a higher power to try to help them with their addiction.

  10. Yesterday just more of the same ol, same ol with AA Daytona in Sunrise Park and NA Daytona At Hollyland Park. Even at Centennial Park at the meeting on Saturday night still smoke and refuse to pay rent.

  11. MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, SUNDAY, HOLLYLAND PARK, HOLLY HILL FL.
    HONESTLY, this group’s behavior appears to be getting worse!
    The Daytona Beach Narcotics Anonymous group,“JUST FOR TODAY” converged as they do every Sunday on Hollyland park’s main pavilion. Today the Pavilion was properly reserved and rented for a respectful and friendly family reunion.

    After many NA members walked up to the family reunion and were told that it was not a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, they made their way over to the PLAYGROUND PAVILION, completely surrounded by the park’s playground equipment!

    The group’s chairperson decided this is the appropriate place to set up shop for his high-risk group, that consists of many hard-core repeat offenders when someone is in the main pavilion!!

    With the family reunion taking place and children in the park/playground, the large NA group actually planted themselves right in the middle of the playground facilities! A long- time Daytona beach NA member was heard loudly shouting,
    “ I KNOW I SHOULD BITE MY TOUNGE,… BUT…
    I am getting really Mo#%*r F#@&ing sick of this S#!t !”

    That kind of says it all, I KNOW I SHOULD,… BUT………

    At that point you could see people leaving the area, including a volunteer who was picking up trash in the playground, because they didn’t want to hear the profanity coming from this foul mouthed group in a playground.

    What is it that they don’t get about this behavior being nontraditional and inappropriate? Apparently they get it but simply do not care!

    Later, towards the end of their meeting when people started to filter back towards the playground, multiple NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS members, still hanging around the playground were heard loudly yelling the “F and S” words. One guy who sounded like he was possibly drunk or high was screaming something about “I’M GONNA KILL YOU!”

    Members of these NA/AA groups also continue to take pictures of citizens at the parks on a regular basis, even though they have complained of non-NA members/ citizens having cameras in the public parks while their weekly” ANONYMOUS meetings are taking over.

    One member asked another for a cigarette and the longtime member sarcastically told him,
    ” don’t even think about cigarettes in this park, that’s illegal.” The guy got a cigarette anyway and disregarded this. He was seen walking towards his car in the parking lot and lifting his cigarette repeatedly up to his mouth.

    Just before another NA member pulled out a cigarette and put it in and out his mouth as he was getting ready to leave the playground, you could hear the NA chairperson, who brings the books for sale and collects the money, criticizing the volunteer who was cleaning the park nearby.

    I guess no one else is supposed to be in the area when they take the park over!

    Non-NA members ARE allowed to be in the park and playground when the NA/AA groups show up and take over.

    Park patrons who are already sitting in a pavilion don’t have to surrender the pavilion to these groups when they show up unless the groups have properly reserved and rented the space!!

    As the 2nd man with the cigarette began to make his way out of the playground and over to the chairperson, you could hear him loudly using the “F” word as well.

    All this in the playground on Sunday morning, Memorial day weekend in Hollyland Park, right across the street from Holly Hill City Hall and police department!

    Their 7th tradition, which they recite all the time, tells them not to expect a FREE RIDE and to be responsible, paying their own way! Another principle of NA/AA is to not engage in controversy and conflict with the general public. Yet these groups ignore these traditions and principles and invite all the jailbirds to gather in masses every week, loudly cussing, talking about drugs and smoking when they can get away with it. They do this right by the playgrounds where our children play, knowing how inappropriate it is and how upsetting it is to the citizens of Holly Hill!

    They not only continue to swear around children in the playground but they do it with blatant, willful disregard.

    They know it is inappropriate but I guess In their minds THE FREE RIDE that they are getting takes priority over what is traditional and appropriate.

    • If I had a nickel for every time someone walked up to me in the park and had a Daytona AA or a Daytona NA member asked ” is this the AA/NA meeting”? I would have a lot of money. Just that obnoxious, annoying behavior constantly in our parks is unacceptable. I have also seen Daytona 12 members go up to families, couples, gatherings, picnics and ask ” Is this the AA/NA meeting”?

      You see the people say no and look uncomfortable, realizing they are within feet of an addict with a possible rap sheet and possibly high.

      Why the City of Holly Hill does not do something to stop the damage of their public image is beyond me. AA or NA could careless what the locals think or what is in the best interest of the children.

      Today’s story just makes me sick. Again- does AA or NA teach any ethics what so ever? Did these 12 steppers parents not teach them basic manners? If they did it seems they just do not care, and even though they most likely know better- they refuse to show even children and families respect in Holly Hill’s Parks.

      I feel so bad for the family reunion and what they had to endure today. It is unacceptable, plain and simple.

      • Normally if someone doesn’t know if it’s an AA meeting, it means they are new. I’m sorry it might make a person slightly uncomfortable for one minute but it might save the alcoholics life. I agree the way it sounds like NA groups are acting in your parks is totally inappropriate but NA and AA are two different fellowships.

        • There have also been many AA members acting inappropriately at Park meetings. The AA group’s chairperson is one of them so no one is held accountable and nothing gets resolved.

      • Idk what’s wrong with the way they’re acting but don’t let their actions make you believe all 12 step groups are like that. To your question about does it teach ethics, absolutly! The na teachings have very little about drug use, rather how you can improve yourself as a human being and become a productive member of society. I have seen ex cons come in angry and looking like they’re going to explode to only months later turn into a respectful, thoughtful, productive member of society who volunteers for the less fortunate. I agree they can be a risk for bad behavior, but so these people not deserve a chance to turn their life around?? As to the people coming up to family’s asking if this is a meeting, get over yourself, addicts and alcoholics are people too and don’t deserve to be treated like second class citizens. They clearly shouldn’t have a meeting at a public park as it goes against the anonymous part and yes they should be paying to rent. Just remember there is always two sides to every side of the story, maybe if these people feel you or others in the community think less of them for the simple fact their addicts contributes to their behavior. That is no excuse for their behavior but you must remember that after years of drug use, an addicts brain has changed a lot and the whole chemistry of it has changed. I think the simpilist solution though is they so what pretty much every other na group does and goes to a church basement.

        • Then go and try to make them change their venue! People have for years -only to be abused by this group as a whole.

          Where is NY in all this? Where is the kindness of helping of the less fortunatethat you talk about?

          No where.

          Wake up and smell the coffee – these are not nice people trying to do good. They are a gang of thugs who intimidate the general public and their children all the while using the name of AA to do so.

          Thats what us anti-AA ppl talk about- criminals within the doors of AA and how unsafe they make our communities.

          Libraian

    • On Memorial day weekend, a volunteer who was cleaning up trash at Hollyland Park, had to listen to excessive swearing from members of the Daytona Beach NA group, “JUST FOR TODAY” who were holding their large meeting directly in the middle of the playground.

      Someone had properly rented the park’s main pavilion for a family reunion gathering. This Daytona NA group’s non-traditional chairperson decided to take over the pavilion in the middle of the playground which was about 30 to 40 feet from the family reunion event!

      Too bad if the children of the family reunion were hoping to use the playground!

      The volunteer was so sick of hearing the foul language and witnessing the inappropriate behavior from this group on Memorial day weekend that he decided not to visit the Holly Hill park last Sunday.

      He considered not going again this weekend but then asked himself, why should any citizen allow this group, who takes over the park every Sunday morning, to deny one from enjoying a typical park experience because of their foul language and inappropriate aggressive behavior?

      So at about 11:30 a.m., after purchasing a sub from Subway, he decided to stop by and eat his brunch in the park at a nice shady picnic table across the field and away from the meeting.

      He got out with his book to read and paused from time to time to watch some batting practice going in the ball field as he ate his food.

      The citizen just continued to read his book. Even at this distance one could not help but hear swearing. He also heard a lady who apparently was walking with a small child coming closer to where he was sitting. As she got closer she heckled the citizen with an extremely derogatory and critical remark.

      Then two other Daytona NA members came by where the citizen was sitting and muttered derogatory comments about him to one another as they passed.

      I guess they are retaliating because this citizen has had to call the police in the past when Daytona Beach NA members illegally smoke and harass citizens etc.

      What happened next was much worse! AA Daytona Meetings in Daytona Beach Florida Volusia County

      As the citizen continued with his book and some NA members were getting in their vehicles, a newer,tan diesel truck drove toward the citizen.The truck pulled up tightly behind the citizen’s car, which was the last one in the parking area. THEN THE DRIVER AGGRESSIVELY MANEUVERED THIS TRUCK AROUND THE CAR, WAY UP ON TO THE GRASS, TIGHT TO AND PART WAY AROUND THE TREE AND PICNIC TABLE!

      HE THEN SAT STARING RIGHT AT THE CITIZEN, WHILE PARKED APPROXIMATELY 10 FEET FROM THE CITIZEN’S SIDE OF PICNIC TABLE, ON THE GRASS WITH HIS DIESEL MOTOR RUNNING! Every time the citizen looked up from his book, the aggressive man in the truck was staring right at him!

      After many minutes had gone by the citizen started to pick up his food and book to put it in his car. The man in the truck just kept staring and then pulled his truck sideways right behind the car, blocking it. The citizen just calmly continued to put his things in his car and then thought it best to check the license tag of this truck!

      At that point the Daytona NA man in the truck made some aggressive and unusual maneuvers, backing his truck up across the grass, way over towards the nursery. The man in the truck continued to stare at the citizen from his truck. The citizen then walked diagonally across the field to get the license number from the truck. After realizing that the citizen was getting his tag number the truck quickly left the area.

      The citizen stayed a while longer and watched some batting practice to relax but then it began to rain so he decided to leave.

      As the citizen reached the stop sign at the edge of the park and prepared to pull out, the same truck pulled slowly in front of him on the street and then stopped in the road just past the intersection.

      The citizen then pulled out onto the road and went in the opposite direction of the truck to avoid further aggression from this man. At that point the man in the tan, crew cab, diesel truck quickly pulled into Centennial Park and stopped right in the entrance way.

      As the citizen headed east, the man in the truck peeled out of Centennial Park and you could hear his tires squealing 3+ blocks away!!

      VERY AGGRESSIVE !!

      Knowing the long criminal and violent history of some of these anonymous members and the completely unsupervised nature of their meetings, it boggles the mind to think of them being permitted to take over a playground just to avoid paying for an appropriate space.

      This would not be allowed in Daytona, Ormond or Volusia County Parks!

      Their organization’s 7th tradition expects them to pay their own way and they always recite how their traditions are
      NON-NEGOTIABLE!

    • Your comentary is well stated. But you do display a fear and loathing for individuals that have a criminal pass. I believe it would behoove you to eliminate any judgmental discussion involving others and stick to your gift of logic… YES!, minus the fear of criminals!

      Other than that observation i agree your in a pickle. Good luck fighting city hall. you’ve proven other roads you’ve taken don’t work… say make friends with a left handed person… perhaps they can show you how to think out of the box… maybe solve the problems.

      • Hi Stanley, I love children and care about their safety! I also love and care about grown up children who struggle with unresolved issues from their childhood!

        This public awareness website is committed to uncovering the facts about rehabilitation options! In doing so it brings out some long covered up truths concerning unsafe, unregulated, nonprofessional twelve-step anonymous groups like AA and NA. This website also has links to many good, alternative free rehabilitation options.

        If we REALLY care about people who are suffering, in trouble and risk then we need to wake up and look at the facts!

        You may have misinterpreted my passion for raising awareness about the irresponsible and nontraditional practice of AA/NA groups who advertise public parks/playgrounds as a place for conducting their regular anonymous addiction meetings. In doing this, they knowingly attract large groups of high risk, court mandates to the playground.

        Right hand, left hand, in the box or out….. it is what it is!

        I can see how one might misunderstand my speaking out about the facts and risks involved with this.

        Sorry for the misunderstanding!

        The AA/NA 7th tradition tells them to pay their own way,
        like using the money they collect at the meetings to pay for an appropriate anonymous space.

        Park patrons have been threatened by AA/NA members for not giving up their seats and the pavilion to the large groups when they show up!

        I guess I do think outside the box. While most citizens were understandably intimidated by the way these AA/NA members would run them out, as if they owned the place, I was actually one who decided not to give in to fear so I stayed!

        I don’t believe in fear and loathing, I believe in love, truth and standing up for it even if it’s not a popular position.

    • It is time to go Anonymous ourselves. Get your Guy Fawkes masks on and meet at the pavilion for a standin. Power of numbers will draw press, press will draw light on the situation. Anonymous style.

  12. Another large hollyland park daytona NA meeting another morning of endless really bad language. F this and f that . F that sh*&. Have they forgotten how to speak normal english when they are out in public places? they park all on the grass. the park cannot handle the size of these meetings.

    Then they go out in the parking lot and continue cussing about their dysfunctional organization. Even talking about their problems with the NA groups they continue to cuss every other word, even after the main meeting. The come early stay late crowd to continue to show how disrespectful they are to people who are trying to enjoy mothers day in the park. Thanks Holly Hill NA! you guys are pathetic. really and truly pathetic.

    • I totally agree fedup- today was really bad with cussing and parking on the grass. I guess this is how they talk around their very own children? Somehow NA members think this is appropriate behavior? They know they have many complaints about their cussing in the parks, and it seems like they actually are doing it more!

      On some level people who join NA regress in many ways. Like their emotional growth is stunted for many. Yet NA and AA teaches you to keep your side of the street clean before you approach other members about their inappropriate behaviors. This is why you see no leaders or people in authority who will tell their own group members to stop cussing or smoking and on and on.

      Happy Mothers Day Holly Hill AA and NA! You really showed your true colors being so disgusting and disrespectful to mothers and their children on this very special day. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

      • For the sake of EVERYONE I hope Daytona NA/AA can get together and vote to ask their groups do the responsible, appropriate thing. Why can’t they counsel and expect their groups to follow their own organizations traditions like the 7th tradition about paying their way and the one about not engaging in controversy and conflict?

        By simply showing some natural consideration and respect for their own traditions and for what the children in Holly Hill Parks have to hear, all this controversy surrounding Daytona NA/AA would be able to naturally fade away.

        Can’t Daytona NA/AA expect these groups to show some authentic consideration for their own traditions if nothing else?

        If they would just be considerate and responsible, rent an appropriate place and stop expecting a free ride.
        These groups obviously don’t care about Holly Hill parks with children in the park having to hear their loud drug and alcohol stories and profanity.

        I hope they vote to do the right thing by following their own program and traditions. Please do this for the sake of the children and citizens in the park and those who are honestly trying be responsible in overcoming drug and alcohol use!

  13. What a disgrace these aa daytona members cussing in sunrise park today like they are the only ones in the park. They are telling their alcohol stories at the top of their lungs. I won’t be bringing my kid to sunrise sunday morning during the aa meeting.

  14. Citizens who are concerned about the safety of children and others in Holly Hill Florida parks, regularly volunteer by keeping an eye out while large, high risk, nontraditional Narcotics Anonymous groups have their weekly takeovers of Holly land Park and Centennial Park in Holly Hill Florida.

    Daytona Beach Alcoholics Anonymous also conducts an advertised weekly, nontraditional unsupervised rehab meeting in Sunrise Park Holly Hill Florida.

    A call was made to the Holly Hill Police Department today because Narcotics Anonymous members, gathering for their advertised weekly Sunday morning takeover, were once again observed smoking cigarettes.

    Taking the advice of Capt. Aldrich of the Holly Hill Police Department, a citizen called the Holly Hill PD to report the incident.

    The Holly Hill Park Ranger showed up along with a Holly Hill police officer and handled the situation in a professional manner!

    “The Citizens Of Holly Hill For Good Park Policy,” thank Mayor Johnson, the Holly Hill commissioners and members of the Holly Hill Police Department who are passionate about ensuring child safe, family friendly, clean, smoke-free Parks for our children and citizens!

    Certain Holly Hill NA/AA members, who are obviously upset for having their organization once again be warned for smoking, appeared to make another attempt to mislead law enforcement, trying to discredit the reporting person. The citizens of Holly Hill are used this to this!

    This time, instead of just the blonde haired NA lady being the one to mislead law enforcement, she conspired with a brunette NA lady who appeared to make an attempt at discrediting the reporting person. Many Daytona NA members, along with these 2 ladies, kept staring at and talking about the citizen who simply sat in his car observing the park.

    They know that he regularly volunteers his time this way, observing the park to help ensure Park safety and compliance with Park regulations.

    The brunette lady who stared angrily at the citizen, walked away with the Park Ranger for quite some time. If she was trying to mislead and or lie to law enforcement about this citizen somehow breaking the law, she would have been fabricating a story which can and will be easily disproven!

    This citizen simply sits in his car and or takes a walk around the park and occasionally uses the restroom. He respectfully and intentionally does not speak or interact with these individuals!

    These dishonest Daytona AA/NA members know who they are and need to do an “HONEST INVENTORY,” as their organization calls it!

    They continue to snub Holly Hill Park policy and then lie about local citizens who report them for it! These groups are nontraditional within their own organization, and non compliant in regard to proper Park policy.

    They fan the flames of controversy!!

    Giving false and misleading information to law enforcement is serious business!! These vindictive Daytona NA/AA members had best be mindful of that!

    They should be aware that there are other citizens, neighborhood watch and undercover observers who can and will vouch that this reporting person/ citizen is not breaking any laws in the park!

    Mayor Johnson, the Holly Hill city Council and Police Department know who these concerned, child safety advocates are. They are fully aware that these citizens are volunteering, monitoring the parks in regards to valid concerns about Park safety and compliance with Park rules.

    After the meeting was over, some of the members stared intimidatingly at the citizen. Loud, profane language directed at reporting citizen could be heard such as “mother f*@#&r” this and “mother f#*@#r” that, for all the children to hear!

    • 4thechildren- these Holly Hill 12 step groups certainly show a pattern over the years of deceit and ignoring the laws of our city. As long as they continue to refuse to pay their way and obey the laws of our city then they can expect citizens to hold them accountable for their irresponsible actions.

      It’s like no one ever taught them how to act in public. Just common decency is foreign to them as they smoke and use foul language. They themselves have reported about the problems they face at various meetings with guns, violence and drug dealing.

      How do they rationalize that it is okay to bring these problems into our parks? They are selfish!

  15. And folks in Holly Hill will need to decide on who is/is not going to be in office next year. The City Council has been naughty, and there will be spankings.

    So why run? Oh, lots of reasons. Right now there are a number of laws that need to be repealed, and some recent ordinances that should be stricken, and that’s well and fine and would cover two meetings, but there are bigger issues, as well.

    We’re hemorrhaging money into the market building, and that is not going to come back to us. The city promised to help the guy who wrecked the boat, but threatened him, arrested him, and took his home away.

    We need to put some controls back in place, we need to be able to speak at meetings, show support for speakers, and voice our opinions WITHOUT fear of reprisal or being kicked out because what we say isn’t what the council wants to hear. We should stop projects that infringe on people’s property and serve little purpose other than to walk on a resident. We should put some new restrictions in place int he city to prevent future councils from taking too much power and shutting residents out.

    We need a Police Review Board. That will restrain the police and give the residents some control over the police department.There also needs to be a set policy in place in how the police deal with/work with legal gun owners within the city. As it stands now, 911 will not dispatch a police officer to your residence if you tell them that you’re armed. The current “Powers That Be,” refuse to change that.

    We need our parks safe. Right now they aren’t. Some groups who come to the parks are disruptive, and some folks are using the parks as a way to distribute favors or drugs. Many complaints later, and the groups still create havoc and residents are unable to use our parks safely.

  16. Yes I hear what you are saying. AA Volusia County Group and the AA Sunrise Group is guilty of the same thing. They have had the police called on them multiple times.

    Actually June 10th 2012 Daytona Beach Area Narcotics Anonymous had their annual picnic at Sunrise Park with over 200 people attending! There was no police like there normally would be for such a large crowd. Sunrise did not apply for a special use permit that requires you to have one if your event has over 99 people. Bit of course NA Daytona think they are above the law, and thumbed their nose at that requirement. I wonder how many sexual predators and violent felons attended the picnic along with other citizens trying to have birthday parties for their small children.

    Volusia County courts mandates prostitutes, sexual predators and violent felons every week to AA and NA meetings. The City Of Holly Hill does NOTHING about the meetings in our parks. In fact every Saturday night at 7:30 they have a huge meeting at Centennial Park in Holly Hill Florida. Even though they illegally Park along the side of the road, because there is not enough parking in the Park itself. Even though numerous citizens have complained about this, the City of Holly Hill seems to not care. Many of these meetings are sometimes over 100 people. Yet they do not not reserve the space and pay for it, or apply for any special permitting.

    There have been sex crimes and rapes in Centennial Park by NA members in the past. But our government will do nothing other than tear down bathrooms to control the sex offenders like they did at Ross Point not long ago. There was also a reported rape recently in Sunrise Park as well.

    If the City of Holly Hill supports these court mandated felons attending non paying groups than they should pay and have police presence during meetings.

  17. Monday, June 11, 2012
    Tonight at Sunrise Park in Holly Hill, Florida;
    An associate of the Daytona Narcotics Anonymous group, “THE NEXT STEP,” was arrested and taken away in handcuffs ,“LITERALLY RIGHT OUT OF THE PLAYGROUND.”

    Right after the meeting concluded, 3 members made a beeline toward the playground where about 10 small children were playing. A man who was at the playground waiting for them went straight up to them. They walked off quickly together toward the parking lot and then the man walked quickly back to the playground.

    There was something about this hook up that seemed unnatural and sketchy !
    I suppose it was because this man and the Daytona Narcotics Anonymous members acted suspiciously, looking around at people in Sunrise Park as if to question if they were being watched.

    This of course attracted people’s attention.

    This man and his friend then sat drinking beer after beer, literally in the playground area with numerous small children playing all around them as night approached !

    Holly Hill Police arrived, discovered this going on, searched the man’s belongings and took him away in handcuffs !

    Sunrise Park is a no alcohol Park but to pound tallboy after tallboy while sitting on a bench inside the play area was over-the-top!

    By the way the prearranged, sketchy meeting went down between this man and his friends from the” Next Step” Daytona Narcotics Anonymous meeting and considering how this man’s backpack was searched, it would not surprise me at all if he was found with more than just alcohol in his possession.

    NEXT STEP SPONSORS, PHIL AND DON are working hard to recruit ever greater numbers to the park/ playground. This has being a long-running, heated controversy that PHIL AND DON enjoy engaging in with concerned community members who have experienced harassment and threats from members of the DAYTONA NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS MEMBERS ATTENDING MEETINGS IN THE PARK/PLAYGROUND.

    SPONSORS PHIL AND DON fight this community. A community that has asked them to please consider honoring their traditions by using the money they collect at meetings to pay for an, “ANONYMOUS” place that they could more appropriately conduct their business. Most people who come to the meetings simply attend in order to get papers signed to comply with the terms of their early release from jail.

    For the children sake, please do the right thing and give this community a break !

    • Maybe it is time to congregate at their neighborhood and property and throw trash and cigarette butts on their property.

  18. Welcome Cat Complex! Great comments! We are seeing a shift in the strangle hold that AA has on this country. Not a huge shift, as there is much denial from the 12 step loyalists that will flat out lie about the dangers of AA, and all of the forced worshipping. They are doing EVERYTHING to keep their claws into our courts and minors.

  19. YIPPEEE! This movement of awakening & breaking free of the enslavement of these cults is growing! And among other things, this opens the way for truly useful &
    therapeutic treatment for users – without the morality & religious imposition! This can be a new era of enlightenment and understanding!

      • Hi KathyNA! Welcome! Just curious if you do not feel safe at your NA meeting, that it is a cult and you have been clean 10 years( congrats!) why do you still go to NA meetings?

  20. For as long as I’ve been attending meetings, I have noticed that groups have a big problem with common welfare issues. From things like smoking where asked not to and leaving cigarette butts left everywhere, to not confronting attendees who prey on the vulnerable, and everything in between. There’s a lot of irresponsible and at times reprehensible behavior in the fellowship, and from people who are supposed to be living spiritual lives. At times, it’s ridiculous and “not my concern” or “I can’t control others” attitudes aren’t going to cut it. Groups are responsible for the actions of their members and common welfare should come first, personal recovery depends on AA unity. This means groups decide how to run themselves and then enforce those decisions, even if it means asking someone to leave, or barring a member from attending and calling the cops if they ignore it. Meetings lose their space privileges, newcomers run like hell from meetings, we become unwelcome in the community and much more. Not OK.

    One example: in the 90s, for 2 consecutive years I went to an AA roundup held on Lake Roosevelt. It was awesome – beautiful lake, warm sun, lots of good speakers, more than 3000 people attended each year. It was a blast. I had a boat at the time, and we water skied, wake boarded and pulled an inner tube. Great time. Anyway, the first year I had to leave the day before the conference ended, and of course I packed out what packed in. I mean, that’s what you do as a citizen in society. The second year, as the conference was ending, I noticed that people had driven where they weren’t supposed to, left garbage and things they no longer wanted strewn about their campsites. The place was a mess, and everyone was heading out not giving two turds about it! There were several people also concerned about it. Several out of thousands. We spent six hours cleaning the place up as best we could. But while doing so, I realized that the damage to vegetation was extensive, a cable fence had been destroyed when someone drove over it, etc., etc.

    Later, I voiced my concerns to the committee that held the conference in a phone call, and then let it go. Several months later, I heard in a meeting in Albuquerque (where I lived) that the roundup was moving to Rocky Point, Mexico. This disappointed me, I’m not a fan of Rocky Point and I so loved the Roosevelt location. I called the contact with the conference to inquire and what I was told did not surprise me at all. The Arizona Park Service had tripled the lease amount for the conference due to the damage and mess left behind at the last roundup. My contact relayed that the rep with the park service had told them that the conference committee was lucky they weren’t being sued, and even luckier that the service was even willing to allow another conference as last year’s damage was in the thousands.

    In between 1990 and 2000, when I was bouncing in and out of AA, I was one of those guys who hit on women in AA. Then one day, a couple of dudes from a meeting I regularly attended asked to speak to me after a meeting. They very nicely pointed out to me that I was abusing the privilege of being there by doing that, and that if I continued they would take it to the next group conscience meeting and I may be barred from attending that meeting. I was defensive of course, and rattled off some “rights” crap and left. My behavior didn’t change, but I didn’t go to that meeting anymore! This was just before I went on my last cocaine run in mid 2000. I didn’t go many meetings during that time, but when I crawled back in October, I was willing to abide by some rules. And I did, I never used AA in that way again. The point is that these men were willing to confront me on behavior, for the well-being of others and the group as a whole. That’s common welfare, and it’s lacking in my view.

    This lack is not good for our members, our groups, our community, and it certainly isn’t living in recovery

    • One would hope that things would have calmed down after 2 years of intense controversy between the VOLUSIA COUNTY INTERGROUP SOUTHEAST REGION OF AA AREA 14 “ AA GROUP SUNRISE GROUP, ” and local citizens who have been harassed and threatened by it’s members who conduct their business in SUNRISE PARK IN HOLLY HILL FLORIDA.

      As of Sunday, JULY 8TH 2012 this group’s aggressive tendencies have escalated!

      I am pro-recovery! I advocate for safe, responsible, accountable addiction recovery programs. I support programs that have qualified counselors who lead by example and follow their own organizations guidelines,truly providing a healthy atmosphere for recovery.

      On Sunday, July 8, 2012 a citizen was leaving Sunrise Park and walked past the pavilion where the AA group “ SUNRISE GROUP,” were conducting their business. As this person passed, minding his own business, not saying anything to anyone, he was heckled by group members, including Bruce who is the group’s chairperson. This citizen said nothing to them until after about 4 harassing remarks were made like, “don’t have a nice day” and “I don’t think he ever has a nice day.”

      As witnesses nearby will testify by the time this citizen got close to his car to leave he turned and asked, “Excuse me, I was not speaking to you, can’t I go to my car, minding my own business without being harassed?

      At that point a very large, very aggressive individual named Carl, who had just been loudly joking with Bruce about kicking some ass, got extremely confrontational! Carl then aggressively approached the citizen who was trying to go to his vehicle to leave. Carl loudly proclaimed, “you’re making a big mistake thinking that I’m a passive, peaceful person!”

      The truth is that this community no longer makes this mistake. We now know all too well the aggressive violent tendencies that these individuals demonstrate to citizens in our park/playground!

      The citizen was trying to get to his car and get away from Carl but Carl continued to aggressively approach in a threatening manner. The citizen, caught in a threatening predicament, pulled out his cell phone and made it clear that if Carl did not back off and stop harassing him that THE POLICE WILL BE CALLED.

      Hearing that, other members of the “AA SUNRISE GROUP,” then attempted to get Carl to back down to avoid legal repercussions and the inevitable continued bad publicity that “SUNRISE GROUP” brings to Daytona AA.

      Carl said “I don’t care,” and continued approaching aggressively. As the citizen scrolled through his phone numbers for the Holly Hill Police Department, AA members who wanted to avoid a run-in distracted Carl and the citizen was able to get in his car. As he and other citizens were pulling out of the parking lot, Carl wildly followed their cars, taking pictures of their cars with his camera phone.

      This aggressive behavior is representative of this group’s aggressive and defiant chairperson Bruce, who upon further investigation turns out to have been arrested in 2011 for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon!

      CAN WE PLEASE HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE INTERVENTION FROM AA MEMBERS WITH A CONSCIENCE WHO HONOR APPROPRIATELY FOLLOWING AA TRADITION?

      • In response to the eyewitness account in the comment above by( more options )of harassment and threatening behavior by AA members in Sunrise Park towards a citizen on July 8, 2012.

        I really wonder what Carl and Bruce had in mind heckling and harassing a person in the park who had not spoken a word to them or even looked at them while passing. After multiple unsolicited rude remarks were thrown out by Bruce, Carl and other Daytona AA members the only response by the citizen was “was I talking to you?”, “ Can’t I walk through the park to my car without being harassed?”

        As stated in the comment above by a witness ,that’s when Carl went off and started marching toward the car from the meeting on his rant about not being passive. I really feel that had there not been other citizens in the park that were witnessing the event, besides Daytona AA members and had a cell phone not been handy preparing to call the Holly Hill police things likely would have turned out differently. It was only after police were about to be called that the other Daytona AA members got involved to persuade Carl to let it go. The way Carl stormed over to the parking lot one could only surmise that he was going to prove that he was not a passive person.

      • thats horrible

        they should be kicked out like they were kicked out of a Church in Beverly Hills. Thats AA I mean. AA and NA are dying. Good…we can all go to Smart or SOS or Hams or Moderation. In 10 years 12 step will only be in skid row again. Trust me!!!
        http://www.leavingaa.comn

  21. Crime is increasing in Holly Hill Fl and Sunrise Park,and our commissioners, Mayor and Chief Of Police Mark Barker are not offering any solutions. We had a rape in Sunrise Park last week. Even though citizens have been complaining for years about the criminals being mandated to AA and NA and coming into our parks to set up shop, the City of Holly Hill do nothing but upset and patronize the citizens even more. Commissioner Donnie Moore when asked by a citizen this past Tuesday at the commissioner meeting about what are the commissioners going to do about the high crime in general in Holly Hill Fl, answered “Nothing”. WOW! Really Donnie, nothing!? Very rude awakening……..

  22. Thank you for this site. Not only Sunrise Park, more will be revealed. Some are just simply afraid to say anything, as nothing would be done to correct ANY situation …As long as you don’t drink or drug, the world is yours and you can do whatever you want. THE FUNNY SPIRITUALITY OF BILL W. is interesting.

  23. Pingback: Neighbors Had Complained To Police Before About George Zimmerman Who Killed Trayvon Martin | NA DAYTONA – NATURAL ACCOUNTABILITY

  24. To say that they don’t care about what anyone thinks is a gross understatement. Instead of finding another place for their Monday night meetings, as Daytona NA would like them to, they decided to go it on their own and add more meetings to this park! These guys are intentionally sticking it to the community on this and there’s no way around it. This is a clear example of no common decency, 0 respect for the community or their own traditions concerning controversy and paying their way etc.. It’s also a clear example of lack of accountability. Who is in charge? These guys don’t even want to comply with their own organization, bringing more meetings to this park that has had so much trouble from it’s members. They don’t even go with their own program! How can this group that won’t comply with their own organization be considered a legitimate place for drug court mandates to get there probation compliance papers signed? controversy?? They might as well just rip that “tradition page out of their book and answer to Bill W. about it. They do whatever they want and when one of them threatens somebody, yep, you know the story, Phil just refuses to cooperate with police, smiles and says ,“we’re anonymous so,”! If you haven’t read it, check it out to see how all this got started by reading “THE RUDE AWAKENING” They’re not only ignoring their own traditions they are actively and intentionally going against them!

    In the playground? Why? No, really!

    Why would they pick Sunrise Park at the playground to attract large numbers of felons on probation to have their non-accountable” anonymous meetings?” Does this really seem like a good idea to anyone? Would common sense tell us that there may be a more appropriate place for such a gathering?

    Do they really think this inappropriate action is a good move? Do they really think that they can slap our community in the face this way and not have controversy? This is the arrogant attitude that fueled this controversy in the first place.

    • We follow every rule and tradition that are set forth for us. What do you know? Have you attended. Obviously not. Phil and Don are two of the most caring people i know. They are not to blame for a couple of idiots. Did you forget, we are all responsible for the way we act. Maybe you need some Faith in your life, or a self-help group. But you are entitled to your opinion. I just ask that you know what you are talking about before you know what you are really talking about.
      Thank You,
      Rebecca

      • Well I have to feel sorry for you if Phil and Don are the most caring people you know. Sounds like you have a low standard.

        Phil lied to police and refused to help locals when they were threatened. Then the NA member that threatened the local business died of an overdose shortly after. Maybe, just maybe if Phil would of cooperated with police and cared about local citizens, this man might of had intervention that might have saved his life. Phil was a huge part of the problem at Sunrise Park.

        Then your buddy Don. Yes I still can remember like yesterday his obnoxious booming voice saying F^%K this and F*&^K that in earshot of the little kids playing on the playground. Then he would go on his religious rants.

        You did not have to be part of the meeting to hear his horror story about overdosing and going to the hospital only to pull out his IV’s and called his drug buddy to pick him up so he can go do drugs again!

        You are joking right? You follow every rule and tradition put before you? That is a flat out lie. These groups do not follow the 7th tradition and support themselves. They refuse to pay rent. They continue to break rules and smoke in our parks etc.

        Did your good buddies care about the locals citizens and their children at Sunrise Park? No! They subjected us for as long as they could until their group shrunk and eventually had no support and stopped his meeting.

        Now NA have taken over Centennial Park and Hollyland Park with large meetings that continue to smoke even though we have a NO SMOKING in all of HOLLY HILL Parks.

      • Rebecca, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO READ THROUGH THIS “RUDE AWAKENING” SECTION AND THE MONTHLY ARCHIVES OF NEWS ARTICLES AND INFORMATIONAL LINKS to become TRULY INFORMED!

        What I KNOW about “Phil and Don” and other Daytona AA and NA members is that there are years worth of first-hand, citizens eyewitness accounts throughout this” RUDE AWAKENING” posting and other postings on this community interest/public awareness website. Don and Phil have demonstrated inappropriate, nontraditional behavior and many other members have intimidated and even threatened the lives of citizens in Holly Hill Florida City Parks!

        The very top of this “RUDE AWAKENING” posting explains how Phil, who is the chairperson at the meeting and supposed to be an example, REFUSED TO HELP IN A HOLLY HILL POLICE INVESTIGATION when a local business owner and friend was threatened by a Daytona Narcotics Anonymous member.

        THE STORE OWNER WAS THREATENED DIRECTLY BY A MEMBER AND TOLD,” YOU MOTHERF#@*#RS BETTER GET BULLET PROOF GLASS!!!” Please excuse me in quoting this foul threat.

        These huge groups advertise regular multiple meetings per week and invite their members to attend the organizations addiction rehabilitation business in HOLLY HILL FLORIDA CITY PARKS as a freebie.

        A facilitator explained that these Park meetings were very popular because their members could smoke cigarettes to their hearts content during the meetings.
        These “FREEBIE MEETINGS” are (NON- TRADITIONAL AND NON-COMPLIANT WITH THE AA and NA 7TH TRADITION) CONCERNING… “PAYING THEIR WAY”- not expecting freebies!

        THEY COLLECT MONEY FROM AND SELL ITEMS TO MEMBERS AT THESE HUGE DAYTONA REGULAR MEETINGS IN HOLLY HILL CITY PARKS! Yet they refuse to properly reserve and pay rent for a meeting space with the money that they collect. Selling items and collecting money in Holly Hill city parks without a permit is non compliant with Holly Hill City Park policy!

        THE CITIZENS OF HOLLY HILL FOR GOOD PARK POLICY have actually learned an incredible amount of information about what really goes on within the non-accountable organizations of Narcotics Anonymous/ Alcoholics Anonymous and at their unsupervised meetings!

        PLEASE READ through the MONTHLY ARCHIVES of news articles and header postings compiled on this community interest/public awareness website to assess the information for yourself!

      • you have been brainwashed and you are in a cult. Listen to what you are saying. You are not above the law. AA and NA are not special secret societies.

        A few years ago a woman called NA hotline. A man answered the phone. The woman asked for help. He went over to her place and raped her.

        NA and AA are filled with sexual predators. http://www.leavingaa.com

        Get real….AA and NA are very old modalities and they need to be regulated like any other government agency. or religion. In 25 states….12 step has already been deemed religious so you can not be sentenced there but the public does not know the laws. I do.

  25. ON March 12, 2012, the sponsors PHIL and DON of the DAYTONA NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS group, The Next Step that is (NOT ANONYMOUS) because it meets in public at SUNRISE PARK next to the playground, made a clear choice to willfully, deliberately fan the flames of controversy that have been burning for almost 2 years now.

    PHIL and DON enjoy exhibiting an obvious total disregard for the consideration of the local community, as well as their own organization’s traditions and reputation. They have made it clear that they choose to be in direct opposition to the wishes of the local community and their own group’s majority collective conscious. In true oppositional defiant form, they intentionally have declared a sort of war with this embattled community which has already experienced so much harassment and threats of violence from enabled, emboldened members who feel they are above the law and beyond reproach!

    ON MARCH 12, 2012 PHIL and DON, who sponsor the “DAYTONA NOT ANONYMOUS, NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS, PUBLIC PARK MEETINGS in SUNRISE PARK, HOLLY HILL, FLORIDA, DECIDED TO TAKE THIS CONTROVERSY TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL !

    While sitting in the park’s main pavilion they LOUDLY carried on about their drug use in plain earshot of the many park patrons were out with their children, exercising, walking the dogs and generally just trying to enjoy the peace and quiet of the park as it was intended to be enjoyed. As they conducted their business, they opened their meeting with the usual ritual of reciting their traditions. They read about how their traditions are non negotiable and how by following these traditions they avoid problems with the public at large by not engaging in controversy or putting personality before principal!

    The scary part about this is that they read this everyday and within minutes of reading it they passionately broke numerous traditions without hesitation! If they don’t follow the traditions of the group do they really represent what the group is supposed to be?

    It was shortly after this reading that a telephone conversation was taking place nearby.Though the level of the phone conversation was not nearly as loud as they were talking they found it intolerable and a loud, aggressive DAYTONA BEACH NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS MEMBER abruptly yelled, cursing, using the F word as he harshly insulted this individual for simply using the phone within earshot of them!

    Apparently it’s okay for them to talk as loud as they want without any thought of who they might be disturbing but if just one park patron is within earshot of them talking in the park they find this unacceptable!

    This outburst was very loud as the F word rang out into the park for all to hear, from the littlest child in the playground, just steps away, to the sidewalk where the seniors were venturing out for an evening walk.

    There was much talk amongst themselves and they tried to calm the individual by moving to the pavilion, where they usually meet. Out of all the open pavilions they could’ve picked, this night they chose to take the, most controversial main pavilion where so many prior threats have taken place against local citizens by members of their group.

    Once at this pavilion, one could hear the sponsors, PHIL and DON take up most of their time talking about the park and how THEY DON’T CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS because they are going to do what they want!

    They then collected money from everyone and ended the meeting after about 40 minutes. What are they going to do with the money they collected? I thought they were supposed to use that money to pay rent for an appropriate meeting place that protected their members anonymity, paying their way as their 7th tradition says they should.

    When they had finished going on and on about the Park and how they weren’t going anywhere, they then proudly announced that they had added another meeting per week to this embattled park. Their voices and faces beamed in apparent love for this controversy. Whatever happened to principal before personality?

    WELL, IF IT’S CONTROVERSY THAT THEY LOVE THEN IT’S CONTROVERSY THEY SHALL HAVE ! !

    Out of all the possible places that they could choose from to start up a new meeting they chose the most controversial of them all ! !

    The is good news for all who appreciate this site as this latest news has spread quickly through the community breathing new life into the community’s commitment to raise awareness about this anonymous, unaccountable, emboldened, dysfunctional, “anything goes catchall” for the overcrowded correctional facilities.

    These individuals and this dysfunctional attitude, that undermines true recovery, is responsible for giving birth to this COMMUNITY INTEREST, PRO FUNCTIONAL RECOVERY SITE. The sponsor PHIL, is the very same from the “RUDE AWAKENING,” that demonstrated how he just smiles as he obstructs justice while police are attempting to investigate one of their members who threatened to shoot up a store across the street from the park where they hold their meetings.

    • Unbelievable, what is it with these people? After all that’s happened now they just decide that the best place to start up a new meeting out of anywhere in the world is in Sunrise Park where people have been terrorized by them? Why doesn’t it surprise me? I guess they want to show us that they can get away with terrorizing us some more! I didn’t have to hear them say that they don’t care what people think, I could’ve told you that from being around them all these years. My friend and our kids are going to be so upset when I tell them. Just when people were beginning to go to the park after dinner again and it’s still light out for the kids to play. We don’t take our kids to the park when they’re there. We know they don’t care what anyone thinks and how they get away with whatever they want just because they’re on the program. As many times as most of those people have been arrested and let out to our Holly Hill Parks, it’s easy to see why they think they can get away with anything. The kids will be heartbroken but it’s not safe around this element since the police won’t even help us whenever it’s got anything to do with NA or AA, and that sponsor Phil just thinks it’s a big joke. He’s not concerned about our kids that’s for sure, it’s all about,”Smiley.” Smiley is a nickname that some local people gave him because he just smiles as he terrorizes this community. Someone I know told me that he’s got like 30 some driving violations and like 8 arrests in a two-year period! You can hear him talking in the park about his crack addiction. It’s all online, you can look it up .

      • I don’t understand why they are so incredibly selfish. It is all about them. They could care less about the patrons or children at the park. It does not even matter if their own children are actually attending the AA/NA meetings, they cuss and yell about their addiction. They need to learn some basic common decency and manners. Starting to pay for their space would be a start. Even though I don’t think drug rehab obligations and court mandates should be taking place in a park in the first place. The Florida Department of Corrections and Volusia County Drug Court are mandating these felons. The County and state should provide rooms for them to have meetings. Not have our parks being used as an extension of the judicial system. It is in violation of zoning ordinances as well.

      • Are they for real? Are they really starting up more drug meetings at Sunrise Park? Why don’t they do what the other groups do and use the money that they take from people to get a room? Aren’t they supposed to be anonymous? They know damn well that most of the people that they’ve got coming to their meetings are straight out of jail from drug court. I’m with you “locamom” just look them up on Volusia.org inmate information, it’s all public information and a lot of these folks are dangerous! If they care about the kids and the neighborhood at all they wouldn’t call all these jailbirds where the kids play to do these drug rehab meetings! They don’t work with the police when one of them starts trouble. I hear most of them at N/A asked them to please give this park a break and look for a new place to meet. They know that the people who live around here are tired of it all and the trouble. I guess this Phil and Don really don’t even care what most of them at N/A want. Sounds to me like there just going against their own traditions. It just shows how they are, bringing more of them to Sunrise Park of all the places they could pick from. These guys have a real problem! Did somebody say these anonymous groups don’t believe in getting into controversies? You’re right “4thechildren”, they must want controversy to pick Sunrise Park on purpose to upset this neighborhood! They want controversy all right, they’re making that plain!

      • get a petition going, get as many as you can local citizens and go to your monthly city hall meeting and change the laws that allow them to meet in the park, free, weekly. Look up the park laws in CUlver City, CA and follow these rules and you will be rid of them.
        Write letter to your local NA and NAWS in Los Angeles Ca. CAll and send certified letters of complaints . Tell them you will sue. There is a huge case brewing now in LA and you can reach us at 12stephorror@gmail.com

        they can not continue to terrorize civilians they are raping and murdering AA and NA members. Fight back. Fight back. They are not special.

  26. 4th children- Why is this still going on? GO to your Police Chief. Ask him what do you have to do get them out. Then ask him ” are you in AA? NA? Watch his face.

    They only reason I see that this is still a problem is that someone or more then one person at the Top….Your Mayor….Someone is in 12 step a long ass time and or their spouse is. Just ask. Be bold. They are very arrogant people as a whole.

    http://www.leavingaa.com

  27. Don, who is chairing the Narcotics “so-called Anonymous park meeting” at Sunrise Park really seems to be enjoying the controversy with the citizens who come to exercise with their children and dogs. With people sitting and walking nearby he loudly emphasizes, “welcome to the Park meeting” repeating himself 3 times in a row, I suppose for the effect of demonstrating his defiant disregard for the local citizen’s, in close proximity who have endured years of extreme exposure and harassment from these groups!

    Don is well aware of this controversy that has come to a head over conflicts with Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous members harassing and threatening park patrons.

    Once again if you wanted to sit in the park or walk the exercise path you were exposed to the attendee’s talking about their extreme personal drug experiences, like how Don used cocaine every day and drank every night for years and years. Once again we had to hear him go on and on, talking loudly about himself, how he’s lucky to be alive and not have killed someone.

    The court mandated attendees, who are there to get their compliance forms signed, regularly use the F word while telling their horror stories with blatant disregard for whoever happens to be walking by, just a few feet away on the exercise path. Not exactly what you would think of as anonymous!

    Anyone who knows this park knows how, for years people have had to avoid being there while all this is taking place. Park patrons can be seen leaving the park just ahead of the meetings and returning to the park when they know the coast is clear!

    What is so ironic is that they regularly recite their traditions, including the 7th tradition about being self-supporting, and go on to recite the part about how these traditions are non-negotiable and how problems with the public at large are usually the result of not following tradition!

  28. It looks like this Miami neighborhood had their Rude Awakening dealing with Miami Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous meetings in their neighborhood. This City is actually listening to their local residents and cracking down on the illegal AA/NA meetings taking place, unlike the City Of Holly Hill Florida.

    The Little River Club, a site for meetings of recovering alcoholics and drug addicts, says the city of Miami put up barriers to block access to the club’s parking lot as a way to appease neighbors who don’t like the club.

    ACCESS DENIED: Roderick Coleman eases his bicycle through an iron gate at the Little River Club. Behind him lie three concrete barriers placed at the entrance by the city of Miami.

    BY THEO KARANTSALIS
    SPECIAL TO THE MIAMI HERALD

    A bike weaved through three multi-ton barriers then steadied as its handlebars scraped through a 2-foot iron gate.

    “Do you think a wheel chair can get through there?” asked Bob Hardison, manager of the Little River Club, at 755 NE 79th St. in Miami. “No one knows who authorized this.”

    Since early November, access to the club’s parking lot has been blocked by the barriers, apparently installed by the city of Miami. Despite its name, the club serves no liquor, but it serves as a meeting place for Alcoholics Anonymous and similar groups, and some neighbors say it also attracts trouble.

    City Hall officials were unable to explain the barriers on Friday.

    “I’m sorry, I can’t comment on that,” said Juvenal Santana, the city’s chief civil engineer. Santana referred calls to the city’s public relations office, which in turn referred them back to Santana.

    Meanwhile, the city and the club are in the midst of a court battle over the club’s private property rights.

    Hardison said that a few days before the last municipal election, a police SWAT team escorted a large construction crane back through the quiet Shorecrest neighborhood then gave anyone parked in any of the club’s 32 parking spots five minutes to leave. Then the earth shook as three 12-foot barriers, weighing about 6,000 pounds each and similar to the ones used to protect federal courthouses, were plopped in front of the main entrance gate.

    snip

    While neighbors appreciate the work the club does, some feel the club doesn’t respect the area. In last year’s hearing, one neighbor showed commissioners photos to back up his claims.

    “If you look at the picture on the right, the young lady is performing a sex act on her gentleman,” said Troy Howard, who lives near the club. “Members park their cars in front of homes on party nights.”

    Rest of story

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/13/2588530/mysterious-barriers-block-clubs.html#storylink=cpy

    • I have been to thais AA club only once or twice, and it is located on 79th Street, which is notorious for criminal and drug-related activity. I felt very unsafe walking to it after getting off the bus, even as a tall adult white male. And with that said, I’d like like to say that adult males aren’t immune from harm in 12 Step meetings either. There’s a reason I only visited its meetings a couple times, even when I was giving 12 Step the benefit of the doubt. I’ve heard of drug dealing occuring there-big shocker. The Little River meetings are being relocated, if they have not been relocated already. I know of many AA’s that just love the place, for whatever reason. Maybe it’s because they sold cigarettes there…

  29. Anti D- You can change the laws as to who can do what where. Look up cities like Santa Monica Ca. or Culver CIty, CA and see if you and other residents can go to City Council Meetings and make the necessary changes.

    I know this has been a huge problem there and thank you for all you are doing to create change.

  30. Local citizens are beginning to tell some of their experiences of being harassed and threatened by Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous members in the parks of Holly Hill Florida.

    These accounts really help those who visit this site to get a personal feel for what people in our area have had to endure. Readers can then better understand what has motivated our community in developing this site for the purpose of raising public awareness.

    The Alcoholics Anonymous group called, “SUNRISE GROUP,” that is a part of the VOLUSIA COUNTY INTERGROUP in Area 14 have been advertising scheduled meetings at Sunrise Park in Holly Hill Florida every week for years. No matter who was using the park’s main pavilion when they arrived they would always take it over totally disregarding the idea of appropriately reserving it!

    The Alcoholics Anonymous, “SUNRISE GROUP” members are quick to openly criticize Narcotics Anonymous and defensively deny any association with them. They would like to blame all the emboldened, inappropriate conduct on Narcotics Anonymous members but in truth this is not the case. Our community members have been repeatedly harassed and even threatened by members of this group as well!

    This group conducts itself with a self-righteous air of entitlement, as though they own the park. They also act as though they are above and beyond reproach or accountability. The truth needs to be told about the multiple incidents of harassment that citizens have endured from the Alcoholics Anonymous group, “SUNRISE GROUP.”

    In November 2010, some members of our community had properly reserved and rented the pavilion and had the structure clearly marked off for the event. When the, “SUNRISE GROUP,” arrived at Sunrise Park they were enraged and became verbally abusive to the people at the event, some swearing at the citizens and calling them names.

    Although they refuse to properly secure the location for which they advertise their weekly meetings they feel entitled to it just the same.

    One lady AA member stormed across the street over to the local business district, raising hell and asking,”who did this?”,” I’m calling the police !” She got louder and increasingly out-of-control.The store owner had to reply that if she did not calm down she would have to leave the store or the police would have to be called on her.

    Needless to say this ruined the event for the citizens, for which there was no apology from the members of the “Sunrise Group” Alcoholics Anonymous whatsoever.

    Later, the groups facilitator, known as Ed, reportedly came into the store and told the owner that he was the one who originally got Narcotics Anonymous to start using the Park. He vehemently disassociated himself from Narcotics Anonymous though, criticizing them and making degrading remarks about the organization and its members.

    Ed told the owner that the park meetings were popular because members can smoke cigarettes!

    The self-righteous attitude that the, “SUNRISE GROUP,” exhibits, of being superior to members of Narcotics Anonymous, has often been echoed by various Narcotics Anonymous members as well!

    Community members have spoken to distraught and even tearful alcoholics that were told by members of the, “SUNRISE GROUP,” of Alcoholics Anonymous that they really should not be attending their groups meetings. These upset and vulnerable people stated that this was told to them because they had admitted at the meeting also having used drugs. Many people have coexisting addictions, alcohol being one of the hardest to overcome. Telling an alcoholic, just because they had also used drugs before, that they don’t belong at their Alcoholics Anonymous meeting really takes self-righteous to a new level!

    This is only one of the many times that community members were harassed and threatened by, “SUNRISE GROUP,” Alcoholics Anonymous members. It gets much worse!

    • I remember that day! The pavilion had been properly rented through the City of Holly Hill. Ribbons had been put around the pavilion for our community cookout gathering. AA members were beside themselves. There were plenty of other pavilions they could go to. They really acted as though they were entitled to a space that they had not paid rent for over 14 years! They have been running local citizens out of the main pavilion every Sunday morning for over a decade, and proud of it. I was really shocked when they started yelling at us and using profanity. One of the AA members said his wife worked in the offices at Holly Hill.

      Then a really nice man came to talk to us. He was from a different AA group. He agreed that their traditions state that they are to pay their own way and not to take a free ride. He also stated that their tradition was to avoid controversy. He totally understood from the complaints he was hearing from other citizens that morning that AA had over stayed their welcome and should move along. If more 12 steppers were like this man I would have a better opinion of them. He was a genuine person.

      The “Sunrise Group” did move to honor their traditions. We were quite impressed and very appreciative. It only lasted a couple of months though. After moving for only a couple of months, Bruce and Ed decided to go against their traditions and come back to Sunrise Park. They still refused to pay rent.There were heated City Hall hearings on the matter where Group Leader Bruce was lead out of the City Hall meeting by police, because of a scuffle with another AA member that agreed with the citizens that were complaining about their being no Park rules for large groups. They have been back about a year now even though some of there own AA members have asked them to leave and find another place.There also have been multiple incidents where the police had to be called.

  31. One night an older NA Member with long hair walked into the pavilion where we were sitting threatened us and said, “I am packing and I am not afraid to use it!”. Then he walked over to the NA meeting. I believed him too. It was pretty scary. He was trying to intimidate us, because he did not like that we were in a pavilion that his group were used to squatting at for around 15 years without paying rent or cleaning up all there trash and cigarette butts, or their language!

    One of the citizens called the police.The guy left on his motor scooter, but we gave the police his tag number. The police said he would go find the guy and talk to him. Well, the policeman did not fill out a report. The incident sheet said he went to the persons house, but that is it. He did not put the guys name down even though he knew who it was by the tag number and went to his house. When is Holly Hill PD going to stop protecting the Narcotics Anonymous members that commit crimes? What about protecting the citizens who pay their salary ?

    • I know an AA member from the early 1980’s . He now is 30 years sober and quite full of himself. He became a Police Chief for two years. Ask them if they are AA or NA Members. Anyone in charge first. I bet someone high up is in the “program” Don’t be afraid to ask. Many of them can be nice but many are real live bully’s and jerks. Never-mind many are 3rd level sex offenders and violent criminals who care nothing about becoming better men or spiritual or law abiding citizens. AA now is NOT THE SAME as it was in the 1970’s when most were really trying to improve themselves.

  32. Man… Don’t you have something better to do that sit around and bash 12 step fellowships? If you’ve got such a resentment – you should get involved and make a change… Did you just wake up one day and decide to bash 12 step fellowships? You should give it another shot.

    • Give what another shot? Devin, if you have seen what the site is about that should answer your question. It is not rocket science to see the harm that has come to people and children who have been victimized by 13 steppers. It is madness to mandate minors and sexual predators and violent felons to the same meetings.
      I guess you think that is just fine? It is that attitude that helps continue the enabling of these dysfunctional Organizations that prey on people and tell them that they have a disease. They tell you ‘If you don’t go to meetings for life you will die’. It is all very classic brainwashing techniques to keep people dependent on 12 step programs. Take the time and read through the site. Maybe you then can go back to your meetings and make a change to make them safer.

    • Hi Devin T., the term, “twelve-step bashing” is an overused comeback that is regularly thrown out there by defensive members who deny any and all dysfunction within their group to protect it’s reputation at all costs. Safety concerns for children and accountability issues are realities that churches have had to deal with along with other organizations. It’s time that anonymous 12 step organizations take the blinders of denial off and admit the need for accountability and implementing sensible safety measures to protect attendees as well!

      To answer your question, I have plenty of things I would much rather do with my time! I personally have experienced very serious issues involving members of these local groups as have others in our community.These threats of violence, for which we found no accountability, prompted us to get involved. After what we have learned we now feel that we are obligated, as responsible citizens, to raise awareness about about the dangerous dysfunction that is being enabled and continues to go unchecked. Although being “whistle blowers” is admittedly an unpopular position to take, we feel someone has to “get involved and make a change,” as you say!

      Your comment about “You should give it another shot,” is another typical comeback that we hear all the time thrown out by defensive loyalists attempting to change the subject. If you are trying to insinuate something, it does not apply to me as I have never been a member of an anonymous organization.

    • Devin- You are so interesting …telling other adults how to behave, how to pray etc. You are so typical for a 12 stepper. I left after many years because of your ridiculous behavior and mind set. Why don’t you folks get a room and give the park back to family & kids.

      WHy would anyone in 2012 want to use an antiquated modality from 1936 that has never been updated, researched or proven. In fact AA is decreasing. Last year the BB sales were down $100,000 dollars.

  33. Here we are in the new year but one thing hasn’t changed and that’s the foul language that’s freely and loudly used at these Narcotics Anonymous meetings by the playground. They continue to conduct themselves with total disregard for who is forced to hear them cursing and talking openly about their drug use.The F word gets shouted out regularly along with all the other ones every time they’re there. You can count on it!

    Again, I was out exercising along with others and using the wonderful exercise stations that have been placed around the walking path for people to use. I had to hear all about how Don “doesn’t like some MOTHER FU&#!R and he’ll tell him to his face.” That one I heard from across the field! Last week while using one of the exercise stations, near the playground, I had to hear all about how this one guy got away with buying kilos of cocaine in Miami and selling them in Ohio.The chairperson known as Phil, that brings the books to sell and conducts the meeting responded by going on about how he would buy and smoke crack and how people get shot all the time! He went on to say that there are no requirements and attending meeting high on drugs is optional. He emphasized it was not unusual to be sitting next to people, “all wired up or nodding out,” on drugs at meetings.

    What is so upsetting when you think about it is that children have been hearing this kind of thing from these people in the park every day for years and years! It has not been for the lack of money to rent a more reasonable place, as they have been collecting plenty of money over the years in the park by selling books and taking donations. It was not unusual for them to have 60, 80 to 100 or more per night at their meetings. They had to be bringing in a good chunk of change to say the least! They make it clear that they do not care about the community’s children hearing their, “horror stories.” It’s all about them, getting a free ride and smoking cigarette after cigarette!

    • Monday night, January 16, 2012 the NEXT STEP, DAYTONA NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS GROUP, chaired by PHIL and DON, were holding their regularly scheduled “PARK MEETING.” As usual, while exercising using the exercise stations provided, I had to be exposed to hearing the usual,” F this” and “F’ing that” in every other sentence while someone was giving their “HORROR STORY.”

      It’s been almost 20 months now since May 31, 2010 when PHIL refused to cooperate with the police and help the local citizens who had been threatened at the store across the street by a NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS MEMBER.

      Check out the “RUDE AWAKENING STORY” at the top of this page for the full story!

      PHIL just doesn’t get it!

      Is it really that hard for any reasonable person to understand why the community would have a problem with this?

      Our children play in this park and for years they have had to listen to loud “HORROR STORIES” full of inappropriate subject matter and swearing! I mean there is a proper time and place for everything, isn’t there?

      But what is totally unacceptable is that when one of these NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS MEMBERS threatens anyone at these “PARK MEETINGS,” the victim, man, woman or child is left completely vulnerable and on their own with no help or cooperation from the people organizing the meetings.

      If the police are called about a threat, fellow members just stick together to cover for each other. Even the police have been totally complacent about pursuing citizens complaints to hold the responsible parties accountable. This of course has just served to embolden this dangerous dysfunctional behavior.

      PHIL and others, who have shown that they don’t care what people think, continue to force controversial “NOT ANONYMOUS PARK MEETINGS” on children and people trying to use the park for its intended purpose.

      Is it that much to ask for them to honor their 7th tradition and rent an appropriate place to keep their meetings anonymous?

      • I know all too well what you’re talking about.I and other parents have avoided the park and have forbidden our children from using the park after supper for years because of this. Sunday mornings too, it’s a real shame! You are right when you said they don’t care about what the children hear. They just swear and tell their drugging and drinking stories at the top of their lungs looking straight at the little children nearby knowing full well they can hear it all.

        • local mom- You can all get together and go to your local council and have the laws changed about who is allowed to have meetings. Maker the meetings carry insurance and have them prove that no sex offenders are attending. They are not suppose to be around children. Sex offenders are currently being sentenced to AA and NA meetings. See the truth… http://www.stop13stepinaa.wordpress.com and http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com Get a petition. FIght back. They have such grandiose arrogant attitudes about that they are special because they are clean now. They want everyone patting them on the back.
          I say Grow UP AA and NA members. Practice what you preach with Love & Service.

          • You are right Massive. They do seem so arrogant. Like we should roll out the red carpet for them because they are no longer using. What about people who have not screwed up there lives and obey the law? Where is our pat on the back? It is like they get special treatment for having made poor choices in life vs those that did not make a mess of it. Some AA members think it is okay for children to listen to hear the horror stories and be around dangerous people.

      • Have you gone to your assembly person and senator? ACLU?
        Try hiring a lawyer who cares about children’s rights.

        Just trying to think of other ways. If the Mayor and Police chief are not following the law, go to the Labor Board, The Department of Justice, The Press. This is a big problem and a big story. I will come out there to interview many soon for my Documentary…12 Steppers Gone Wild.

        • Hi Massive, I’m a fan of your work. You help remind me that I’m not nuts or “in denial.” I have written an email to the ACLU about what is supposed to be a Secular Residential Treatment Facility. In reality it is run purely by Steppers and Religious ones at that. I don’t care what religion you’re into, but just don’t force it on me. I have had no response from the ACLU about this heartless Cult Compound I resided in.

          • I was reading the 12×12 recently and was struck by the number of times ‘faith’was used in a religious context.

            librarian

      • Sunday 2/17/2013.

        Daytona Beach NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS groups continue to advertise Hollyland Park and Centennial Park in Holly Hill Florida as” their EXCLUSIVE, FREE places for conducting their WEEKLY CORPORATE MEETINGS.

        I decided to stop by to observe their conduct and I was truly disappointed to find that after all this time little has changed!

        A family was setting up a picnic nearby and lots of small children were playing on the swings and in the basketball courts. This recreational equipment for the children is adjacent to the pavilions that the NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS CORPORATION TAKES OVER, “FOR FREE,” WEEKLY TO CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS.

        After the meeting, two Daytona NA members, who were apparently long time local members, stood just 10 to 15 feet away from the basketball court where the children were playing. They loudly complained to each other about the dysfunction and disorganization that they have long perceived with Daytona NA .

        WHAT WAS SO UPSETTING WAS THEIR OBVIOUS LACK OF CONCERN AND TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE CHILDREN AS THEY EXCESSIVELY, LOUDLY AND REPEATEDLY USED THE “F” WORD and other foul, inappropriate words in literally every sentence!

        I witnessed this loud swearing back and forth to one another steadily for about 10 min! The small children just had to play in clear ear shot of it all!

        These long time members are supposed to be examples for the newcomers, yet the constant use of the “F” word in every sentence, for the children to hear, was completely inappropriate and a horrible example for newer members as well!

        These N\A groups just take over the main pavilions every week. They refuse to pay rent to reserve the space, as all others are expected to do. They take the pavilions over when they show up as if they are entitled to expecting preferential treatment.

        Expecting a free place to conduct their business is in total contradiction with their own organization’s 7th tradition!

        When asked if they would be willing to properly pay and reserve the space, as all others are expected to do, these CORPORATE ORGANIZATIONS said “NO.”

        • Unfortunately much has not changed in Holly Hill Parks when it comes to both Volusia County AA and NA meetings still smoking and refusing to pay rent. The commissioners actually state that everyone needs to be treated the same, including the Boy Scouts. I am glad to hear them say that. Yet they need to follow through and stop allowing AA and NA members do as they please and chase people out of pavilions, smoke and refuse to pay rent.

          It sets a bad example for all our citizens, including our children.

          The fact that the members do not even know how to act in a park around children is a disgrace. As an adult I do not like hearing the “F” word left and right. Our children trying to get fresh air and play should not be subjected to polluted air by second hand smoke and vile language by grown adults that should know better. This has been going on for years in our parks. I hope The City of Holly Hill will finally do the right thing and put the children first.
          Mayor Roy Johnson and all of the commissioners say they really care about our children. Maybe they just do not get it, or 12 steppers wield so much power in our little City that the kids are getting thrown under the bus. Maybe the new gang in office will start applying the rules to everyone, no matter whom they are affiliated with.

  34. I remember one night not long after that guy from NA said that the store better get bulletproof glass, some of us were in the park having something to eat and playing checkers. They all piled in on top of us. They didn’t care that we were there first, they just threw their stuff down and told us they were going to have their meeting there. If they would have rented it we would have gave it up to them but they didn’t.

    They got real nasty with us and started cussing and calling us names. After some time they figured they’d better go cause we were going to call the police.

    That one lady with the dark hair stood right next to us and started taking pictures of us with her cell phone. That made people feel uneasy because we didn’t know what she was doing standing so close to us taking our pictures like that. Later we find out her name was Danielle and she was the treasurer for all the Daytona NA groups. It’s really funny how they don’t like people taking their pictures even from far away when Danielle and her buddies started it. They had been taking our pictures for weeks before any of us ever took our first picture. Some of us figured we’d better start taking pictures too since they had been giving everybody so much trouble. We might need to show the pictures to the police because we know they just cover for themselves when one of them starts something with the locals.

    • This Sunday, members of the Daytona Alcoholics Anonymous and Daytona Narcotics Anonymous groups who regularly use Holly Hill Parks as their place of business, knowingly and intentionally gave misleading information to Holly Hill’s new Park Ranger about a well known neighborhood watch/ concerned citizen.

      AA/NA members willfully attempted to mislead Holly Hill’s new Park Ranger with false information in a desperate attempt to smear the reputation of this well-known, caring citizen who is respected by many in the community.

      AA/NA members did this with intent to discredit the neighborhood watch efforts of this and other citizens who have valid concerns about child safety and park policy compliance in Holly Hill Florida.

      The AA/NA members that gave the false and misleading information to Holly Hill’s new Park Ranger knew very well why this particular individual was there. He and other volunteers regularly keep a close eye open when the high-risk unsupervised AA/NA groups converge on and monopolize the parks/ playgrounds.

      These Daytona AA/NA members are very familiar with the citizens who continue to courageously, truthfully report to the authorities about personal experiences with AA/NA members disregarding Holly Hill Park policy, intimidating and even threatening the lives of park patrons while overtaking the unreserved pavilions.

      This was an obvious attempt by AA/NA members to discredit a citizen who is well known to them and to the community as an advocate for the safety of children and updated Park policy in Holly Hill. These Daytona AA/NA members diabolically attempted to paint a picture to the new Park Ranger of this concerned citizen as being in the park for just the opposite of a neighborhood watch!

      I won’t give these false reporting AA/NA members the pleasure of repeating their false accusations of ill intent! What I will say is the truth always comes out and it didn’t take long to figure this one out!

      All who really know this individual appreciate his concern for and commitment to the safety of children. This particular individual also happens to be in his 50s with a clean police record.

      It is obvious to anyone in the know that these AA/NA members acted dishonestly.

      It is well known that he and other volunteers regularly keep an eye out for the safety of our children and citizens while these unsupervised groups of court mandated repeat offenders, including violent sexual predators, converge on Holly Hill parks/playgrounds!

      This is certainly not the 1st time that Daytona AA/ NA members have given false and misleading information to law enforcement covering for their members who have disrespected our parks and threatened our citizens!

      • I totally understand safepark! Both Daytona NA and AA members have filed false police reports against innocent citizens in retaliation for speaking the truth about them. They are bullies and liars.

        They still resent any hint of someone telling them they cannot smoke or tell them they need to follow the other rules of Holly Hill Parks.

        It is ironic the false accusations they want to make when many of them are court mandates from Volusia County Drug Court and Department of Corrections.

        • AA-holes at work!
          This is exactly what I mean. Why are they allowed to get away with this? They do not think that they ought to be governed by the same set of laws, rules and expectations that the rest of us must obey. Then they want to turn around and make false charges against others.

          And does anyone here think they feel that they are wrong at all for this?

          Never.

          The only thing that matters is that the fellowship goes on long after everyone else is dead.

          This is just one of the reasons why I am so passionate about the Karla Brada case. They need to know that they simply cannot just do whatever they want; lie, cheat, steal, rape, abuse and murder people without being held accountable.

          A monster has been created and all of the drunken fools who created it enjoyed their con game, made money and have died. In their wake they have left this monolithic monster that just tromps on and on creating zombies, chaos, havoc and destruction of many lives behind in its lie ridden path.

          The Karla case will open people’s minds to the fact that AA and NA can be held legally responsible for the damage they do. Maybe they will not be so quick to jump off making false charges against people when they note that they themselves are being scrutinized and held accountable?

          And please…

          If you are a person reading this who would like a simple easy way to make a huge difference in a lot of lives; help share Karla’s story. The fight for justice in the criminal and civil courts wages on.

          Please SHARE the following link via:

          * Email to your contact list
          * Post on local government web sites
          * Share on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc.

          http://www.tinyurl.com/AaMurderOfKarlaBrada

          With as many people as read and post and visit sites that give the truth about the 12 step racket it is honestly a shame that our voice is not LOUDER and made to be reckoned with.

          There are more of us than there are of them.

          Don’t be afraid—make them be afraid finally for a damned change.

          Share the link please:
          http://www.tinyurl.com/AaMurderOfKarlaBrada

  35. THE RUDE AWAKENING story represents a true moment of realization for many in our community. The truth is that many incidents of intimidation and threats against community members would follow over the next year and a half.

    Do you have your own personal RUDE AWAKENING moment with AA or NA ?

    Have you had a dysfunctional encounter while attending a meeting?

    Have you experienced a confrontation with groups that meet in your area?

  36. Anybody been around a group of 13 to 18 year olds? The language I hear at my grandchildren’s school athletic events is enough to make Don seem like a monk. It is what is happening all over the world. No one wants to accept responsibility for their own actions. Political correctness and seperation of church and state and a whole bunch of self-righteous people trying to protect me from myself are making it easier for me to deny my accountability. As a 30 year continuously sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous I resent some of the labels attached to these groups and meetings. If there are statutes and or park rules being violated then get law enforcement involved. If they don’t respond, go
    up the chain of authority. If still no response, go to a council meeting, then go to the ballot box. If you are going to complain about peoples behavior make sure you include all groups behaving badly. I’m not condoning foul language or ignorant rude behavior, but I am condeming people who point and go “oh my god what ever can we do”. There is nothing that says a group of concerned citizens can’t get together and take some responsible action to deal with this problem.

    • Hi George- You make some very good suggestions.Unfortunately the local community has actually already done ALL of the above! So it is not like the community has not tried to responsibly deal with the problem. Actually a lot more things have happened with these groups other then bad language.
      Like what the Rude Awakening story outlines,also death threats,assaults,littering, including obnoxious narcissistic behavior with both Daytona AA and Daytona NA.They act with a great expectation of numerous entitlements. Volusia County Intergroup of Daytona ‘Sunrise Group’ that meet at Sunrise Park at 9:00 am Sunday morning as well have similar behaviors. In fact many of their peers disagree with them staying in the park and refusing to pay rent after 18 years and upsetting the locals so much.

      I don’t think the teens you speak of who cuss at events will make Don look like a monk!He is really vulgar.

    • Anti-denial is speaking the truth. Our community has gone through all the channels George mentioned. Our elected officials and tax funded staff do not quite get the importance of accountability either. We will continue to go through the channels and exercise our right to expect accountability at the ballot box in 2012!

      George’s criticism of mariek8’s comment was entirely off-the-cuff and uninformed!

      I would certainly hope a 30 year sober grandparent would not imply that juvenile behavior validates Don’s habitual loud use of the “F word” at our playgrounds. If he does not condone Don’s behavior by comparing it to that of juveniles then I’m not sure why it was brought up at all.

      He apparently feels that separation of church and state is a bad idea that has been pushed on us by self-righteous people? He’ll have to take that one up with our nation’s founders.

      In addition to working through all the channels of government, it is also a responsible course of action to raise public awareness about the truth.

      The non-accountable, basic structure system that these groups are built around is at the root of this crisis.

      This has become an unthinkably dangerous situation!
      It actually makes no sense at all when one realizes that these organizations are attended, mostly by ever higher numbers of court mandated felons as a means of offsetting the nation’s problem of overcrowded jails and prisons. There needs to be accountability where such high risk groups gather! The growing issues of concern related to these literally “out-of-control” organizations are being exacerbated by those who are enabling it by turning a blind eye to the facts! Continuing to deny this dysfunction only keeps people, both within and outside these organizations, at risk of falling victim to it.

      If we really care about people, inside these groups and out, we need to be willing to look at what’s really going on and apply some common sense solutions!

  37. OMG! I have heard people at the NA meetings at Sunrise Park too.I can’t believe the big guy with the little boy uses such profanity around his own son and other children.

    They don’t care if women are walking by their meeting,nothing slows them down.
    You would think there would be someone with enough class to tell the big guy and others to tone it down.I thought NA says they are not religious? Good grief-this man is hollering about how God is the only way,then cussing like a sailor. I don’t even like going there anymore during the time they are having a meeting. I know other people are really disgusted with their behavior.They are driving people out of the park right and left.

  38. I and some other people were out exercising and trying to enjoy the park the other night when our attention was drawn to an extremely loud group of Narcotics Anonymous members holding a meeting there after dark. Although I was on the other side of the park it was impossible not to hear what was being said.

    One man named DON, that brings his very young son with him to play in the dark playground while they conduct their business, has a voice like a foghorn. DON, who apparently is now the chairperson that sponsors the group, “MORE WILL BE REVEALED,” went on a screaming rant full of profanity, totally oblivious that a lady was walking her dog right past him at the time.

    He bellowed out his horror story about how he was taken to the hospital in an ambulance but was so F’d up on drugs that he was ripping the I V’s out of his arm. He went on to say when he got to the hospital he continued this behavior and called his friends to come get him so they could go out and get F’d up some more.

    His story got louder and more bizarre as one sentence would be full of the F word and the S word and the next would be screaming about how his listeners needed GOD if they expected to be able to work the program and get clean. This went on for a good long time, alternating one sentence full of cuss words and the next one Bible thumping back and forth screaming so loudly it was frightening!

    PHIL, chairs the group, “THE NEXT STEP.” He is also the very same PHIL in the story, “THE RUDE AWAKENING,” who refused to cooperate with police and help the local citizens that were threatened by a member of their organization.

    PHIL was also louder than usual this night and I couldn’t help but hear him as he talked about his bad habits. He said he has a history of NOT DOING WHAT’S RIGHT and convincing himself that it’s okay. Knowing his blatant disregard for local citizens and their concerns for safety, I would say he still has some work to do in this area! He has dug his heels in against our local community harder and longer than anyone! He seems to have difficulty with the PERSONALITY BEFORE PRINCIPAL thing, and disregards what’s best for NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS AS A WHOLE as well !

    As long as they insist on loudly telling their horror stories in public for all to hear, including the children, I guess they really don’t care about the anonymous part of their name. One day they will wake up and realize that they are famous for making Bill W’s worst nightmare come true. He clearly spoke of how things would fall apart if members stopped following the core values and traditions that the anonymous group was founded upon.

      • 4thechildren is spot on KG. You do not need to be a saint to want to protect children in the park from NA and AA members who seem not to care about their well being. Or about the thousands of other children that go to 12 step meetings hanging around dangerous felons and listening to horror stories. Why do you not care KG?

    • Im glad their is a website that is exposing the truth about this organization and the harm it has brought to millions with out any publicity, knowledge and accountability

      • Alcoholics Anonymous continues to publicize their organization. They get lots of free publicity too! Even though they like to say it is attraction not promotion. It is because they do not hold themselves accountable, that so much harm is going on in the rooms of AA. Many are being sexually harrassed and abused.

      • I agree. People should try http://www.smartrecovery.org !

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