Daytona Beach Alcoholics Anonymous Sunrise Group VIOLATES NO SMOKING SUNRISE PARK RULES IN HOLLY HILL FLORIDA.
Local citizens strolling through the park on a beautiful Sunday morning were admiring the completion of some new projects in the City of Holly Hill, like new sidewalks, repaving of Riverside Dr, and improvements to the park. They were taking pictures of the park and wildlife when they noticed that Daytona AA Sunrise Group from Volusia County Intergroup were defiantly disregarding the no smoking policy. Both Daytona AA and Daytona NA have been refusing to pay rent and running people out of pavilions for years. This group now chooses to disrespect the NO SMOKING rules of the park!
Are the AA groups in Daytona really that bad & corrupt??
I’m thinking of moving to there & am an AA member….But after reading this story & the one about Larry Tuttle, the guy that was stealing money from another member, makes me wonder about the program there….Kind of scaring me off!
Aren’t you scared of AA itself itafter reading all the stuff on this and other websites?
Hi Leana, yes it should scare you. NA and AA Daytona has a history of predatory behavior. As does 12 step programs in general.
On a windy morning here in Sunrise Park Daytona AA members are still violating the park NO SMOKING Rules. It has been over a year now since the new NO SMOKING rules went into effect- and DAYTONA AA members still think they are above the rules and continue to smoke in Sunrise Park Holly Hill Florida.
Hi guys, have written for a while, but have been keeping up with the stories. I too see AA members from the sunrise group in holly hill still smoking and blowing off the no smoking rules. Ther aa pr guy for the intergroup witnesses it and does not say anything or do anything. Bruce has no control over his group or he just does not even care.
Just about a year later and Bruce still cannot get his fellow AA Daytona members to follow the No Smoking Rules in Sunrise Park Holly Hill. On top of not paying rent they still are smoking at their meetings. Why don’t they pay rent with the money they collect and follow Sunrise Park No Smoking Policy? Oh I forgot, they are special.
When I walk on Sunday mornings I see this group smoking often. It really is a shame they cannot set a good example for others.
Here we are February 12th 2013 and Both AA and NA of Daytona continue to smoke in Sunrise Park, Holly land Park and Centennial Park. They keep thumbing their nose at the rules of Holly Hill. These groups are AA Sunrise Group in Sunrise Park, The Third Tradition in Centennial Park and Just For Today in Holly Land Park.
As a resident of Holly Hill I would ask these groups to start obeying these rules A.S.A.P. The residents are not going to allow this to continue without voicing our opinions at City meetings, to the police and to AA and NA. It took years to get these rules passed and hell if we are just going to take this flagrant disrespect of parks lightly.
I’m sorry I also did want to add as I mentioned very few run-ins with any shady characters…but then after living in one of Daytona’s Infamous Crack Neighborhoods I’ve become accustomed to doing what I do really not talk to anyone I don’t know…after living in an environment like I did you don’t stir the kettle (so to speak).So I guess yes,I tend to do what I do and not concern myself so much with what everyone else is doing.It’s more like Self-Preservation.
The majority of the Illegal narcotics Activity is in an area surrounded by Nova Road and the Apartment Complex behind Neighborhood Market and areas bordering the Daytona Beach City Limits with a few pockets scattered about mainly between Daytona Ave & Center Street.
I appreciate people who want to clean up areas on all of our behalf but not at the expense of the Quality Of Life & Enjoyment of Law Abiding Citizens.THis ain’t the 50’s and not everyone works Banker’s Hours in this day and age. Just because someone works non-traditional hours they shouldn’t have their right to an enjoyable quality of life taken away.
I really don’t want to get into Riverside Drive which is too dangerous at times to enjoy walking along because of Excessive Speeders and a lack of Speed Enforcement.
As for troubles at the parks,yes I’m sure there are Isolated Issues…what I am saying is these Issues being discussed are really nowhere as widespread as where I had to live in Daytona.
I try to enjoy whatever plans I have walking my dogs,exercising,walking and jogging within the current constraints which I’m hopeful will eventually be removed. I don’t recall seeing the meeting Advertised where these rules were put into place but I’m sure (as required by law) the public was notified about workshops to discuss setting up these rules before they were voted on.It’s too bad it wasn’t placed on the ballot for registered voters to have a say.
How do you have Quality of life & enjoyment when crime is a constant problem in the parks? There is nothing isolated about the incidents of crime in our parks. Holly Hill is well known for crime by AA members, crime by sex perverts, criminals breaking into cars at the parks and sexual assaults.
It is to improve the Quality of Life & enjoyment of citizens that the rules were put in place. Just like most parks have! It might not fit everyones’s schedule, but it is best for the community. As far as walking on Riverside- there is a beautiful new sidewalk that is perfect for walking and jogging. Many people are enjoying it.
We must be talking about a different Holly Hill John! We have problems of prostitution on Ridgewood and in our parks. We have shootings and robberies. We have daily drug dealing and harassment by AA and NA members threatening peoples lives. Holly Hill’s crime states were way up last year and Daytona’s was down as well as the state of Florida. We have lots of work to be done to turn Holly Hill around to be a safe community, including our parks that many citizens stopped going to because of the crime and the 12 step meetings.
A few troublemakers?! Please John get real. This rules happened for a reason. CRIME and cleaning up the park for starters. Also Daytona Beach is a large City compared to Holly Hill. So you are comparing apples to oranges. We get lots of Daytonas problems because their Chief Chitwood is actually tough on crime, unlike Holly Hill Cheif Mark Barker and crew, who enjoy victimizing the victims, and are to lazy to fill out police reports. They like hanging out under the shade trees in Holly Land.They are a joke in the district attorney’s office.
Anyway John you were not able to answer my question where are there other parks that have jogging trails open 24 hours a day? You can still fish at Sunrise Park South. Just not Sunrise Park North. Also it is not a jogging trail, it is a walking trail.
Not to many joggers are out after 10 pm! also nothing is stopping you from walking on the sidewalks along beautiful Riverside Drive.
Sunrise Park and Ross Point have been known for years as a gay cruising place and plenty of sex stings have taken place there. Not nearly enough though. Perverts galore! Too bad you seem to find it acceptable, most local citizens do not. They even tore down the bathrooms at Ross Point because of the sex perverts and drug dealing! We most certainly have problems in Holly Hill Florida.
There has been so many complaints in front of the City Commission and to the Holly Hill Police Department about crime not being handled properly. There have been complaints to the FDLE about the Holly Hill PD as well. 12 step meetings had taken over Sunrise Park meeting there 8 times a week with some meetings over 100 people!
Many are court mandated and many come from Daytona. They learned how loosy goose are parks were, and crime increased as the meetings increased. That makes sense when you have every criminal under the sun being mandated to our parks and not following our parks rules. They still continue to harass park patrons.
I am glad to see that Holly Hill is going in the right direction and putting in some basic rules. Mayor Roy Johnson loves children, and is trying to make it safer for them. But he has his work cut out for him, as there is a lot of apathy in City Hall. With the new sidewalks, no smoking, new hours Sunrise Park is turning a corner. This is just the beginning!
People should think about the citizens as whole and what is in the best interest for the community. Not just a few self interest groups setting up rehab meetings and people who cant walk on the sidewalks after 10 pm or fish on a different pier.
Wow John- how many people jog after 10:00 PM at night? Is there not a place to walk your dog where you live before 6:00 am? Do you not care about the cigarrette butts that litter the gound, and the second hand smoke that people have to ingest while on the walking trail?
What other parks do you know of that are open past 10 at night? Most parks are actually open only dusk to dawn. Holly Hill is being generous with their new hours. It was unsafe having Sunrise Park open 24 hours a day. There were rapes, prostitution, drug dealing, gay cruising, car break-ins and homeless people camping out and pan handling. Holly Hill is FINALLY getting a few park rules to make it a safer and cleaner for citizens. There is more work that needs to be done to bring the parks up to proper standards.
Also people can fish in the Sunrise Park South, and the sidewalks are available for people to walk their dogs up and down Riverside drive all the way to Ormond and beyond, now that the new sidewalks are in.
I’ve experienced problems myself only 2 or 3 times at Sunrise Park,two other smaller parks maybe once or twice. I lived in Daytona beach where you could not walk to the Convenience Store in broad daylight,a neighbor was robbed in broad daylight by thugs…Drug Dealing,Prostitution & Drive By Shootings were nearly an everyday occurence in Daytona Beach-Holly Hill by Comparison is like Heaven on Earth. I don’t think I should be told I can’t Fish or Use the Jogging/Excerise Trail because of a few Troublemakers,you people need to live where I used to live,You think Holly Hill has problems??? Go live in Daytona beach!!!
Their Park Rules Suck! A Nice Jogging Track that I can’t use after work on Weekends! I can’t walk my dog any longer before I go to work (Park Closed til 6AM),And I don’t care if someone SMOKES…that’s their choice. Law Abiding Citizens are having their Quality of Life taken away by Politicians. Kick out the Criminals and let the taxpayers Fish and walk our Dogs again!!!
Angelblue,
I hope the powers that be at the Holly park meeting pay attention to what you said.
However, I dont think repeating any steps will help; because this is about people who are so disrespectful, they continue to break the law and smoke in a smoking (clearly marked) prohibited area. It’s rude, inconsiderate behavior. Unfortunately, they are members of alcoholics anonymous. It reflects poorly on the member’s and leaves them wide open for criticism. The solution is so simple, why are they making it so difficult? I would think they would be grateful that they have such a pleasant environment for their meetings.
I had gone to AA meetings for years with them being smoking meetings. We even use the phrase “smoke filled rooms” talking about AA meetings. I am about as addicted to ciggies as a human can get but when I go to an AA meeting I am there to because of the alcoholism, not to smoke. Smoking is a luxury at the meeting but I can go an hour without a ciggie and if it gets to bad I just go outside smoke half of one and come back in, no biggie. I have in my travels around the U.S. in the last several years attended alot of AA meetings in other states there have gone non- smoking too. I guess I’ve just gotten used to it at this point. To me it’s a matter of “am I willing to go to any lengths to keep my sobriety?” the answer is pretty simple. I’d go to an AA meeting with a room full of rattlesnakes if i needed the meeting bad enough to keep my sobriety. My sobriety is the key that holds everything else in place. If I’m so concerned about my rights as a smoker that I am unwilling to go to an AA meeting that is non-smoking then I really need to start back at step one, because it’s all about me and NOT the we of this program. I really feel that it’s a very small price to pay to go 1 hour out of my life without the ciggie to maintain my sobriety.
I’m sure AA meeting would get packed to the rafters if they were held at the local strip club as the *attraction* to get them there, but the sobriety is supossed to be the attraction, “If you want what we have” instead of a smoking issue to attract people for a bigger turnout.
Bottom line it’s all about the sobriety and NOT smokers rights, and this is coming from a smoker!
sorry for the rant.
I just really feel that smoking shouldn’t even be an issue at a meeting since we are there for alcoholism. I have spent years defending smokers rights, and even go so far as to be a little on the intolerant side on the ex smokers, so I really am shocked at myself getting so ranty, (is that a real word? ) over this issue. But it really is all about maintaining our sobriety and not whether we can smoke or not. I am hoping I didn’t piss anyone off. Come to think of it it wouldn’t be a day of the week unless I pissed off at least 1 person
Daytona AA members might not care about the adverse impact on their own health- but dont try to kill others with your 2nd hand smoke in a no smoking park!
Coffee and smoking notorious at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings
Published on July 19, 2008
More than one million Americans currently participate in the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) program. While AA participants are reportedly notorious for their coffee drinking and cigarette smoking, very little research has quantified their consumption of these two products. Recent findings confirm that coffee and cigarette use among this population is greater than among the general U.S. population: most AA members drink coffee and more than half smoke.
While the most common cause of death in long-term recovering alcoholics is related to the health consequences of cigarette smoking, Martin noted, recent epidemiological studies have shown that coffee consumption is not harmful to health and may, in fact, reduce the risk of death from suicide, certain cancers, and other diseases.
Entire Story-
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/07/19/40103.aspx
Again?! 5 weeks in a row, and they are still contaminating Sunrise Park with their Ciggarette butts? What about the people on the exercise trail that goes right by the AA meetings? They have to breath secondhand smoke. At least Holly Hill police paid them a visit and talked to them. Hopefully this will be the end of this problem. Why doesnt the meeting leader Bruce tell them to not smoke? It makes them all look bad and is bringing controversy to themselves because they cannot follow simple rules, and respect the park.
FYI, no smoking is a rule at our clubhouse.
😉
Daytona Beach AA members keep breaking Holly Hill Park regulations by smoking at their AA meetings every Sunday at Sunrise Park.
This Sunday the Holly Hill Police Department had to make a special trip to Sunrise Park to tell this Daytona Beach AA group what no smoking means.
It’s a shame that they couldn’t just do the right thing without making it so the police had to be called. The same members just keep smoking every week and the AA group sponsors don’t even try to get them to put them out.
They were given plenty of time to do the right thing on their own but they just kept it up every week until the police had to be called!
The group as a whole has now officially been told by a Holly Hill police officer today at their meeting what no smoking means. Next weekend we will see whether they respect the Holly Hill police department or not!
How arrogant and inconsiderate of them. AA narcissism at it’s best. Man, Holly Hill PD had to explain things to them?
How many Holly Hill PD does it take to get through to Daytona AA?
Answer- We will see!
They dont care about the park, AA as a whole or even their own Volusia County Intergroup. These guys are hardcore.
I’m sick of smelling like I just came from a bar!
Sorry, but I have to vent. The “Yana Service Club” in my area, which hosts 24 (24!!) AA meetings a week, only offers ONE non-smoking after regular working hours (5pm or later). I am sick to death of coming home and smelling like I just came from a bar!! Why is it so difficult to put the cigarette away for just one hour, or step outside to smoke? And now a “new” rule is in effect, “do not open windows because the air-conditioner is running”…really?
And these are the same people who encorage others to stay away from any “mood altering” drug. Hypocrites. You want to see a mood altered, try bringing up the topic of switching meetings to non-smoking during a group conscience. Or listen to somebody sing the glories of sobriety as they chain smoke through the ENTIRE meeting.
AND…AND…the smoking gets WORSE based on the TOPIC of the damn meeting. If the meeting is about gratitude, not so much smoke, but RESENTMENTS!?, Forget about it!!
Sorry for the vent. I smoked for 25 years. Gave it up 2 years ago. I’m sick of smoking everybody else’s. I know, I know…go to a non-smoking meeting.
Or I could start smoking something nasty like cloves, or Big FAT Cigars, or BIG FAT CLOVE CIGARS!!!… puff, puff puffin’ away… Blowing my smoke in somebady else’s face.
UUUUHHHHGGGGG!!!!
Smoking and Recovery
Has the link finally been broken?
Tom Sinclair
Smoking and recovery used to go together like Sonny and Cher. Those who attended AA meetings 15 or 20 years ago will remember when “the rooms” were almost entirely smoke-filled. Newcomers and old-timers alike chain-smoked on the theory it was a bona fide recovery tool, not an addiction. “I’d rather die of lung cancer than cirrhosis” was their unofficial slogan.
The link between smoking and recovery goes back a long way. Emphysema, caused by years of heavy smoking, was a major factor (along with pneumonia) in the 1971 death of AA cofounder Bill Wilson. But Bill’s death didn’t stop folks from continuing to light up – or from starting to smoke.
Indeed, the recovery world is rife with tales of people who had seldom or never smoked but started puffing with a vengeance after they stopped drinking. “When I first got sober about fifteen years ago, most people in AA smoked,” says Elizabeth R. “I had never been much of a smoker but I started bumming cigarettes and smoking after meetings, mostly to have something to do with my hands so I didn’t feel awkward. Within a couple of years I had developed a two pack a day habit, and continued smoking for about ten years.” (She is currently not smoking.)
These days most of the smoke has cleared up – at least in 12-step meetings in New York State. Smoking in public places has been prohibited – which means smoke-free meetings are the law. Factor in the ever-increasing public cognizance of the health risks associated with smoking – not to mention the dauntingly high cost of cigarettes these days – and you’ll find that tobacco has lost its allure for the recovery community. Abstinence from tobacco has become a logical extension of sobriety.
“When I came into AA, I figured I might as well get rid of two addictions with one program,” says Max H., who has been sober for seven years. “I used the same tools that I did to quit drinking to get off the cancer sticks. It worked beautifully, and still does.”
Looks like Holly Hill is not the only place that AA meetings refuse to honor rules! What is with these people anyway?
No smoking at AA meetings?
Written by Mark Nichols
If you’re a recovering alcoholic that’s been to an AA meeting, you probably have some clothes that you can’t get the cigarette smell out of. Alcoholism is a serious addiction and quitting one drug usually leads to increase in the use of another. People in AA meetings smoke – a lot. That’s going to make for some complicated enforcement of the increasingly popular, “no smoking – anywhere, anytime, indoors or out” ordinances that are popping up in more affluent communities across the nation.
In Aiken, Ohio police issued the first citation for smoking in a public place just recently. The smokers aren’t denying lighting up, but are claiming they aren’t breaking the law, according to officials.
Cops to enforce No Smoking Ordinance
The smokers were attending an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting on a recent Sunday morning at the recovery center when Aiken Public Safety issued the citation. But the AA representative who received the ticket told police the meeting was private.
As a result, according to the City’s ordinance passed last summer, the members may smoke. The ordinance does in fact say that private clubs that are not open to the public may allow smoking.
But the City of Aiken has argued the meetings are public, and the ordinance applies. A city attorney has sent Alcoholics Anonymous a letter that states as much, said Aiken Public Safety spokesperson Lt. David Turno.
“The problem is that we have received numerous complaints from attendees who have called and sent e-mails for months about smoking during meetings that are open to the public,” Lt. Turno told reporters with the Aiken Standard newspaper.
He said officers have met with an AA representative about the matter, but AA is arguing the “private club” exemption.
It is such a shame that this beautiful Park is being treated with such disrespect from
AA Members. Sunrise Group pays nothing to Holly Hill and they have not paid anything to their own AA District in years. Total freeloaders. Just bringing shame to AA.
Travis,
I forgot to ask. Why doesnt the group pay their rent? Church’s, parks, anywhere I went to meetings; the rent was minimal.
That is beyond me… I have no idea…. Maybe they’re a travelling band of wild gypsy alcoholics who are trying to buck the system… REBELS!!
🙂
I know my home group pays around $250-$300 a month, depending onthe collections… There’s 7 groups that use or rent the club that I go to. It’s a nice place and we know it, so we have no problem paying rent.
Glad to see you are honoring your 7th tradition and paying your way at the Easy Does It Club! Can’t say the same for the Sunrise Group or NA Daytona.
Travis,
First of all I was an AA member in the past. I have a history that spans over a few decades and a vast knowledge of the program. I never liked AA and I know now that it was personally a mistake for me and held me back as far as personal growth. All of those reasons are irrelevant to this conversation.
I think there are some nice people in AA and if it suits you fine. Any meetings I went to over the years; people obeyed the individual rules of those who sponsored the meetings. Ive read most of the interaction here and I am unable to contribute because I am not a member of that community. However, I have been looking for you answer regarding the original topic of the thread. DO YOU THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THIS PARTICULAR GROUP TO SMOKE IN THE PARK; WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN ASKED NOT TO. DONT YOU THINK THEY ARE BREAKING THE RULES.
By the way, I think your language and crude comments are out of line and not very program like. Was it really necessary to be belligerent right from the start. If you have a rational explanation; calm down and discuss it. Forgive me if you answered the question i ask about the smoking and I missed it.
Like I did said, rules are rules… But this whole page goes way beyond that issue. I do apologize for the belligerence, but only because you seem halfway civil about things… And don’t worry about MY program. I’m okay with what I say and do, I’m not worried about what you, or non AA’s, or other AA’s think about me. I’M OKAY WITH ME. There are much more deeper lying issues here that need to be dealt with. I know that I have some issues, but, the idiots on here need to get real!! It’s really nothing more now than a pissing match. Well, it is more, it’s taking all of the bad of AA and generalizing it and making it the rule instead of the exception. A lot of good, much more than bad, comes from AA as well.
Guys, on a neutral platform, no debating or putting each other down…
Antidenial, SuzieQ, whosincharge, please, I gotta know, how do you all know so much about AA steps, traditions, etc??? I gotta know.
Travis, I know you think you got us figured out as AA failures. That is the most common knee-jerk defense that gets thrown at us from defensive loyalists who want to divert attention away from “doing an honest inventory!”
The fact is I don’t drink, do drugs or smoke and have never been an AA or NA member.
Most of what I learned about AA/NA came from simply being in the Sunrise Park by the playground and having it imposed on me over and over again day after day, year after year. I should know it all word for word by now, NOT BY CHOICE!
When the harassment and threats from AA/NA members started getting out of control and there was no cooperation from sponsors, long-time members or even the police, we figured we had better do some research to understand how such a court sponsored organization could be so non-accountable, lawless and out of control!
So I guess being threatened and having nowhere to turn inspired us to read up on what’s really going on and read up we did!!
The heated controversy that these Sunrise Park AA/NA groups engaged in by fighting the community, fanned the flames and our thirst for knowledge and the truth!
What we would find out about these unaccountable dangerous, unsupervised groups made us realize that the truth had to come out to raise public awareness about this growing public safety crisis!
If anyone cares about being honest and open to the truth then all they have to do is read through the archives on this website where they will find a wealth of information and articles from around the world that have recently been bringing this all to light!
I suggest reading up on it for yourself if you want to know what’s been happening and then you can do your own “honest inventory” if that is still part of the “Bill W. AA” that you subscribe to.
Well first off I am not an AA or NA member and never have been. Thank God! But Daytona AA and Daytona NA gave me a real wake up call about how 12 step programs work. When they were threatening members of the community many of us started digging for answers. I learned that AA and NA has a special H&I division where they seek prisoners after they get out of prison and help them get to an AA meeting or NA meeting on their very first day out of prison.
Then I realized that many of the people going to the AA and NA meetings in our parks were coming straight from jail or probation! Then things started to make more sense.
Also probation officers that specialize working with pedophiles, mandate many to go to AA/NA meetings. Even 3rd level sex offenders. AA groups are NOT warned of these predators.
Then there is much to read about the courts forcing AA onto people against their constitutional rights with the help of AA. So please don’t say blame the courts, when AA is just as much to blame as they are. AA sponsors are sitting in the court rooms everyday with their sponsees trying to help them get thier AA get out of jail card.
I read about AA members being raped by men they met at AA meetings, and the rampant 13 steppping that AA turns a blind eye to. If you read everything on this website it has lots of information of the crimes by AA/NA members and a lot of other related topics. One is photographers rights!
Again, never a member. Again, taking b.s. off of other websites as truth. You, my friend, are guilty of contempt prior to investigation. You, too, are just as bad as some of these old timers who read out of the Big Book only, and take it as 100% truth without even once trying to use your brain, and reasoning and thinking for yourself, instead of taking some text from an unknown source and taking it for gospel. I can’t even entertainyour mindless comment.
Interesting Travis, Everything I said is 100% true! You just do not want to admit the truth that AA actually invites sex offenders, violent felons, killers, prostitutes and minors to attend meetings. Some people have been arrested over 30 to 50 times! AA could do things to make their meetings safer and they do not. AA is even being sued now for harboring a predator. This site helps people learn about the sad hard facts about AA and NA. You do not like the facts, well we agree on that. I do not like the facts I am learning either.
The articles are true events about crimes comitted by 12 steppers. There are court documents. Just like Karla Brada that was murdered by her AA boyfriend.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah……..
Listen, dummy…
It works. Period.
You know who AA works for other than the 3-5% that have attended? It works really well for scam artists and sexual predators, drug dealers, and many other criminals. It is like an underground criminal organization that is protected by people in high places who should not be protecting it.
Travis- you say ‘ without even once trying to use your brain, and reasoning and thinking for yourself’.
Where on earth do you get that impression? It is independent analysis and research that these stories come from. Unlike the lemmings of AA members running off the cliff following their nutty sponsors and Bill W. Propaganda!
Oh, my liver wasn’t the problem…
It was affecting my soul.
😉
This site did an article on the poor Grandmother Linda Hummer who got murdered by her grandson Christopher Culp that she dearly loved. There were X-mas presents wrapped for him sitting under the tree just a few feet away from her dead body. Her grandson was a local Daytona NA member.
Here is the story,
http://nadaytona.org/2011/09/22/daytona-beach-na-member-murders-his-grandmother-at-christmas-time/
Police were called when the the store was threatened by NA members. Phill the NA Group leader refused to tell police who it was. Sadly the man who threatened the store overdosed a couple of weeks afterwards.
I do not think all AA or NA members are a problem. Many are very understanding and upset about what the community has endured. Because of the structure of AA it was learned there was nothing that either could be done, or would be done. So you basically end up with rogue 12 step groups in our parks doing as they please. Many people are very scared for good reason of them.
You say it is what it is. That attitude has been accepted way to long. Why can’t AA and NA grow out of negative experiences and change things for the better making the rooms in general much safer and actually more effective? The churches are doing it, the Boy Scouts are doing it, I bet even Penn State is now doing it.
Here is a site that helps Organizations to prevent crimes against it’s members. AA could learn a lot from them.
http://nadaytona.org/national-center-for-safety-initiatives-2/
PS- Congratulations too on 4 years of sobriety! I am sure your liver is much happier as well!
Hi Travis, you might want to read this article about how a Daytona Beach AA member threatened the lives of members in the community at Sunrise Park. This AA/NA member did not like it that the pavilion was properly rented, where a Thanksgiving turkey was being cooked by local Holly Hill residents. The sense of entitlement was incredulous! He was a longtime member with longtime sobriety, and also simply a big bully.
Then all his AA/NA buddies lied to the Holly Hill police department about what happened. Also this person actually came into the pavilion to threaten locals and got in their face and took pictures.
The Daytona NA treasurer even filed a false police report.
Read about it all here-
http://nadaytona.org/2012/01/19/daytona-beach-na-member-threatens-the-lives-of-citizens-in-sunrise-park-holly-hill-florida/
Well, that guy’s a dick… Rules are rules. I have just been guilty of contempt prior to investigation. First off, the only reason I even found this site was by chance. Me and a person that I work with were talking about a story from awhile back, so I typed in “holly hill man strangles grandmother christmas” in Google search engine, and this site came up! Immediately I was on the defense as it seemed people were bashing AA as a whole. I just read through some of the other comments on this page, & if they’re true, these people are NOT what AA represents. As for NA, I don’t know, I’m not a “member”. The loud, obnoxious “drugologue”, “drunkologue”, 5th Step, or whatever you want to call it that “Don” speaks about freely and LOUDLY in front of non-members and children is crazy. That’s not a solution based meeting. Obviously, that guy’s still sick. For example, if you have a horse thief that stops drinking, you have a sober horse thief… Not much difference. We are taught (whether one does or not is out of my control) that we need to change everything! Just putting a plug in the jug ain’t gonna do it. That’s like taking your family down in the cellar during a hurricane and after the hurricane saying “Well, ain’t it grand that the wind stopped blowing?” No, that’s not good enough. A lot of wreckage has been caused. It takes work to be sober… I’ve seen many dry, miserable, lying, cheating, stealing alcoholics who have STOPPED DRINKING!! THAT’S NOT SOBRIETY OR A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT AA IS ABOUT!! The majority of true AA’s talk about the SOLUTION AND HOW THEY DID IT, and share their experience, strength, & hope, not still talking about the problem!!
As to the two knuckleheads causing problems in the store, the cops should have been called… And right away. They were probably just two punks either mandated to NA, or trying to pick up vulnerable girls, or just being the dicks that they are. The guy who wouldn’t give up the names after the drive-by threat sounds like a dummy, too. That whole situation sounds like a personal customer-store owner relationship gone bad that got WAY out of hand.
The stories abour “vultures” & “sharks” as we call them, (guys and girls who just go to meetings to prey on vulnerable others for sex or money) are NOT the majority… Like I said earlier, they’re everywhere, bars, colleges, churches, PTA, sporting events, workplaces, and anywhere else. AA in general, the guys in my group, anyways, don’t tolerate that shit. T women who’ve been around for a while don’t tolerate it, either. We all look out for each other!! I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen, I’ve seen it happen, but like I said, some people are fuck-ups and they’re everywhere, not just in AA and not ALL of AA.
The guy who disrespected the Thanksgiving gathering, another idiot. It’s not his pavillion, just like it’s not the “local’s” pavillion. It’s there for everyone to enjoy. Share! Grow the fuck up! BOTH SIDES!!
AA (the program) is wonderful and has saved many lives…
SOME PEOPLE in AA, not so great. I stick with the winners in AA, because trust me, there are some losers. That’s where “good judgement” comes into play. I’ve seen some “bad judgement” here, from both sides. Either way, too bad a few bad apples have put a bad taste in some mouths of people as AA as a whole. I guess you can’t please everybody all of the time and there will always be some closed minds on both sides. Oh, well, it works for me and my family & friends and those around me.
“It is what it is”
Ok… We’re getting way off track here.
1. Let the police do their job. If anybody on here is a cop, put your little badge on & arrest those who are breaking the law in the park, regardless of who they are.
2. The park is open to anyone and everyone, not just AA or NA or anybody else. Everybody should grow up and learn to share. EVERYBODY.
3. Individuals, not “groups”, are responsible for their OWN actions. EVERYBODY should stop pointing fingers. (That’s like saying that the Holly Hill Police Department is a bad or dangerous “group” because there has been one bad example of a cop on the force.)
Sorry to get all of ya’ll’s granny panties in a bunch!! I love you all, regardless of your human flaws.
🙂
Excuse me, I need a smoke break after all of this!!
Hi Travis, LET’S GET RIGHT TO YOUR ORIGINAL POINT ABOUT CAMERAS AND SHARING THE PARK!! I’m still waiting for your response to how the whole camera thing got started in the 1st place! PLEASE REFER TO MY PRIOR COMMENT.
I would appreciate it IF YOU COULD TRULY JUST stick to this subject in responding to me about how you feel about AA/NA members treating people in the park this way!
Like I said, DAYTONA BEACH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS AND NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS STARTED THIS WHOLE PICTURE TAKING THING AND CONTINUED for 2 weeks straight before the citizens decided to protect themselves by bringing their own cameras to gather evidence to protect themselves!
And yes, the only people to ever get up in someone’s face and stick a camera in it, in regard to this controversy, were multiple Daytona Beach AA and NA members who were, TO BORROW YOUR QUOTE, getting their granny panties in a bunch, because they were not able to intimidate the citizens out of their seats!
AND THAT’S THE TRUTH!
SO MUCH FOR USING AND SHARING THE PARK THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED!
DO YOU CONDONE THIS BEHAVIOR? DO YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE REGULAR PARK PATRONS IN ALL THIS?
In my previous comment I gave you the background about how AA and NA and sunrise Park have for years run park patrons and citizens out of their seats and pavilions to monopolize the Park as if they were somehow entitled to just set up shop there!
For some reason the Daytona Beach AA and NA groups, that for years have monopolized Sunrise Park against their 7th tradition which tells you to pay your way, chose the park as a freebie. They intimidated, harassed and threatened any citizen who would not always give these pushy, entitled AA/NA bullies their way. After all the citizens were there 1st.
I would really appreciate you staying on the subject on this one and giving me a direct answer as to how you feel about what started all this in the 1st place!
It’s really not about that at all, anymore. It’s really just a big pissing match between your side & the AA/NA (who are no way affiliated) side.
Kind of like you and I are, right now.It really doesn’t matter. Guess what? You win!! I appologize. I’m done debating. Good luck.
You would have really surprised and impressed me if you could have simply answered my question about how you felt about people in the park being treated this way which started all this.
I had a feeling I wouldn’t be able to get a simple honest, straight answer to a simple question.
I had hoped you might be different and be willing to be honest with yourself and me!
How would you feel if you were not an AA/NA member and you were in the pavilion with your children having a picnic when these people showed up, took over and INTIMIDATED, HARASSED AND THREATENED you out from where you were sitting, day after day?
I see you took a piece of what I said out of context in the message below to make it look silly but anyone who cares to know the truth can see how this all happened.
READ THROUGH THE ARCHIVES OF ARTICLES ON THIS PUBLIC AWARENESS SITE AND THEN LET’S TALK!
I’m still waiting for your response to how the whole camera thing got started in the 1st place!
DAYTONA BEACH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS AND NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS STARTED THIS WHOLE PICTURE TAKING THING…
the citizens were there 1st.
I would really appreciate you staying on the subject on this one and giving me a direct answer as to how you feel about what started all this in the 1st place!
Cmon… It really does sound like,
“Mom! He hit me 1st! No! She hit me 1st! Well, he started it!!”
Sorry… It kinda reminded me of when I was a kid…
😀
Just a simple yes or no would be nice in regard to whether you think you would like to be a person having a picnic with your family in the Park and have these groups show up,harass and run you off day after day for years!
How would you feel if you got tired of it and decided you didn’t have to leave and then AA/NA members began to threaten you and take your picture over and over again for weeks?
Can you just say if that would be O.K. with you or not?
It’s a very straightforward question.
O.K. or not O.K. ?
I see you couldn’t get Travis to say that it would be okay with him if he and his kid’s picnic got run out of a pavilion by a threatening, no pay AA- NA mob that stuck their cameras in his and his kids faces.
Well I can tell you Travis, it’s not okay because its happened to me more than once and I’m glad this website tells it like it is!
I’m also glad that they leave out most of the comments with foul language. My kids and I have heard enough of it out of the mouths of these mobs at the park!
Today is November 4th and yes they were still out there today smoking at the meeting and in the parking lot throwing cigarette butts all around!
Man, 4 weeks in a row and these dudes are still smoking and littering the park with cig butts. I think even worse now of AA.
Again I guess it is who you are married to in City Hall Holly Hill Florida whether rules are enforced in the parks.
Daytona AA and NA members must of narced out a lot of druggies to get such special treatment from the Holly Hill PD.
They are a pretty pathetic group for sure. They only care about themselves with total disregard for
other park patrons.
I agree John63- it is who you know in City Hall, and there are lots of 12 steppers in Holly Hill government, including the Holly Hill PD. This is why they get away with violating the rules of all the parks they have meetings in.
John,
95% of % statistics are made up…
Loosen up.
Those are AA’s OWN Stats. I see you said you were a 3% er. So you are one of the 3% er’s that makes it 4 years in AA. You are certainly in the minority. Congrats!
Ah, you’re right, you got me… Actually, it’s said that it’s only 3% of real alcoholics who get sober & STAY sober (for the rest of their life!) on their first try with no relapses!! I guess that would make 97% “failure” rate, so to speak. Where they get these “stats” is beyond me. Man, how do you guys know so much about AA? I did also hear that almost all % stats are made up… But, I get your point. Thanks on the congrats.
The only “image” I’m concerned with is my own. This has nothing to do with AA’s opinion. And you keep saying “in AA” or “in NA” these people are lurking. So, there’s never been a church group, or police department, or government agency, or Elk or Moose Lodge, or PTA that hasn’t had a pedophile or illegal drug activity or prostitution going on? That’s ridiculous. Wake the fuck up, lady! Bad people are EVERYWHERE. I’m sorry that you can’t see the beautiful forest through some of the ugly trees. There’s a bad apple, maybe a few, in every bunch. How do you know so much about AA, anyways? Bad experience? Maybe, the program didn’t work for you or a loved one? It does work, you just have to be willing to let it. Maybe you don’t drink or use drugs, but you definately have issues. Oh, well. You’re probably just a retired old lady with nothing better to do who gets off on this. Glad I could help!
😉
Get well soon.
You stated ” So, there’s never been a church group, or police department, or government agency, or Elk or Moose Lodge, or PTA that hasn’t had a pedophile or illegal drug activity or prostitution going on?”
Again Travis you keep missing the point! These groups you listed do not have an organized effort to invite pedophiles, prostitutes, killers and drug dealers to their organizations. Both AA and NA go to the prisons( including maximum security ones) and recruit new members and invite them to their meetings. Courts do not mandate felons to the groups you listed either.
So much for attraction and not promotion. Without the prisons and mental institutions AA would be a mear shell of itself.
I also think everyone should obey the no smoking rules in the park. It sets a bad example for others, and could make others think it is okay to break the rules too. What does this say about the group conscience of the Sunrise group?
You know what, from a bigot’s point of view, I guess you would be right.
bigot- one who is devoted to his or her own point of view and who regards or treats a group (group being key word, putting all those people together as one entity instead of each individual person) with intolerance.
And I’ll tell you what, if someone came to me and MY group and said “Hi. I’m a rapist/serial killer/prostitute, my name is _____.”
I’m telling him/her to keep moving, We don’t want you here, there’s groups for people like you.
It is attraction rather than promotion. I’ve seen 100’s of people forced to AA, whether it be by wife, boss, court, or any other number of reasons to go other than doing it for THEMSELF. The majority of people who do it for THEMSELF usually do well and STAY. The others, well, they they drink, they die, or end up in jail, prison, or institutionalized, where they belong. AA is not for people who need it, it’s for people who want it… Again, how do you know so much about AA? Obsessed, ex-member, research???
AA certainly promotes and pressures people to force loved ones into AA! They have written volumes on it in Al-anon and other AA approved material on how to get new prospects.
It sounds like you have bought into the whole AA is the only way thinking. If people do not stay with AA they will die go to prison or be institutionalized.
Did you know Travis that the majority of people actually quit or learn to moderate without any outside help? Also there are other addiction programs that are not 12 step based, that do work for people.
Interesting you are not interested in the rapist et al being in your group. That is refreshing. Yet you belong to an organization that literally invites them! Now I personally feel that these groups of dangerous people we are discussing do need help. I want to see them get the help they need. I really do. But I do not think it is right for AA and the courts to invite this segment of the population to the same meetings as children and minors attend.
If you had a teenage daughter with a alcohol problem, would you think it was okay for AA to show up at her school and tell her to go to the very same meetings that sexual predators and rapists are sent to? Also without warning her? Actually giving her a false sense of security that AA is a fine place for young women! When nothing could be further from the truth! It is just WRONG!
I am not a bigot, just a logical person that realizes the madness in this practice. Also the practice of court mandates sent to our parks by the local Drug Court and Volusia County Department of Corrections where children play is mind boggling.
Anyone who get stop drinking or moderate their drinking on their own is not a “real alcoholic”. I am an alcoholic because my body DOES NOT tolerate alcohol as most people tolerate it. YES I have that thing they call an allergy. If I could have stopped or moderated on my own I would have. I tried, I couldn’t. No doctor, detox or hospital could force me to get sober. Nothing anyone said or did helped until I wanted to stay sober. Oh and I see the indication that Smart Recovery is better. Perhaps they feel that the moderation management approach is better. Do they know that the founder of moderation management has spoken against the program, saying it doesn’t work? Ask her why! She’s currently in prison serving time for vehicular manslaughter. She killed two people while drinking! Great program that moderation management is. She publicly supports AA and not moderation management. Again if someone can manage/decrease or quit drinking they aren’t a true alcoholic. And for the next comment posted by Massive I would love to find out where he/she goes where a guy isn’t trying to hit on a woman. In AA we call it 13 stepping, what do you call it when it happens at work, in the supermarket, at church? Same damned thing only you don’t have a name for it. And by the way Massive I am empowered and I am free in AA. You can quote me and take that to Smart Recovery.
Wow Tammy do you have a lot of misinformation! First off that it a crock that someone was never a real alcoholic if they were able to quit without AA or moderate. That is just FALSE.
SMART Recovery is NOT a moderation management organization! Audrey Kishline actually started out as an AA member, then MM, then 2 months BEFORE she had the accident she went back to being an AA member. SO Audrey Kishline was an AA member at the time of her binging ( which AA members are known for) and killing 2 people. Get your facts straight.
Of course MM works for many people! That is what most people end up doing after alcohol dependency. Or quit altogether by themselves.
I agree it is not for everyone, but it is a viable option to consider.
Again SMART Recovery is not related to MM. It is a rumour that AA likes to spread though!
I thought these links were important to the conversation about Audrey Kishline. Some additional information. The first is an article by Stanton Peele and the second is Jeff Schalers Statement.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/rw/kishpeel.htm
http://www.positiveatheism.org/rw/kishline.htm
Amazing, She was doing fine doing moderation management for 10 years, then went back to AA and after a few months had this accident…hmmmm
I know so many good poeple who have left AA and NA after many years. They dont go to big meetings. They go to little tiny private house meetings. And I dont go at all anymore.
Its all BS. 1936 rhetoric. Cult. Phony. Liars. Scammers. 13 steppers to newcomer women.
SMART RECOVERY is better. SOS is better. Amy Lee Coys way is better . Hank Hayes way is better.
Empowered not powerless.
You choose. I choose Freedom!!!!
Put a camera in my face, and see what happens…The Sunrise Group is not “my” group. As I said ,I’m a member of the Easy Does It Club, come on down to the clubhouse and bring your camera .And guess what? Times have changed… Bill W. was a pushover and a little bit more reserved than I am. I could care less what he would have thought. Just because I’m in AA,it doesn’t mean I am nor do I want to be a conforming push over who lets Napolean complexed, police wannabe, bitches boss him around . You’re obviously lacking control somewhere in your life & decided to take it out on this group of people who just happen to be in AA. It could’ve been anybody, they just happend to be the lucky ones.So, as spiritually as I can say it… Go fuck yourself & stick that camera up your ass. You sure do know a lot about AA & NA, maybe a disgruntled “victim” of the program not working in your or a loved ones life? People might suck but the program works, if you let it.
So, maybe focus on the real problem in OUR city’s parks, like the pervs, the pedos, the johns & hookers… Or do you condone these behaviors, or maybe scared to address them in fear of something or someone?Good luck on your half assed attempt of “control”. See you Sunday.
Actually Travis I do not know of anyone putting a camera in anyone’s face except by Daytona AA and Daytona NA members. So again more untrue rumours.
Actually as far as the law is concerned, times have not changed. Violence against another is against the law. But I am not surprised by your threats of violence. Holly Hill citizens are quite familiar with threats, harassment etc from both Daytona AA and Daytona NA. Which is why we have a problem with them.
If you are so worried about the the pedophiles and perverts coming to Holly Hill City Parks, why don’t you start helping by stop inviting pedophiles, perverts and hookers to your meetings? That will help clean up the parks. What incredible hypocrisy! Stopping the threats of violence would help too with AA’s image in the community.
AA hardly works Travis. It has a 95% failure rate! Have you tried anger management classes? I guess the name for your group “The Easy Does It Club” is an oxymoron. Get a grip.
Good one John63. Easy does it… ha ha ha ha ha
At least you got a sense of humor…
EASY DOES IT!
Hi Travis, just to give you some background. Local citizens and park patrons have been intimidated, harassed, threatened and even had their lives threatened by AA and NA members in Sunrise Park for years now!
Many of these people who are sent to these meetings straight from jail, also aren’t “THERE YET.”
It was AA and NA members of these groups who FIRST took pictures of the citizens in the park! AA and NA members became more and more hostile, intimidating and threatening when they could not force the park patrons ,who were there 1st, out of the pavilions!
Citizens, who out trying to enjoying the park for its intended purpose, are regularly run out of the pavilions on a daily basis by these groups who refuse to honor their 7th tradition and pay their way by properly acquiring and reserving an appropriate place to set up shop for business.
After years of enduring this inappropriate harassment, citizens decided that since AA and NA were behaving this way and refusing to properly rent the facility that the citizens did not have to leave the pavilion that they were sitting in before the groups arrived!
Like I said, this is when members of these groups became very threatening and started taking pictures of the citizens to intimidate them and or target them in some way. Citizens feared for their safety! AA and NA members continued to take pictures of the citizens which went on for 2 weeks before the citizens, TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, decided they had better have cameras too in order to document what was happening for evidence!
Some of the stories of harassment and threats made against citizens in park patrons are documented in the archives of this community interest website and I highly recommend reading them to learn THE TRUTH!
In response to the above comment posted by( Travis, a longtime member of the ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS ” EASY DOES IT GROUP IN ORMOND BEACH FLORIDA.”)
If you do not subscribe to Bill W’s style of AA and “could care less about what he would’ve thought,” as you stated, then I ask you this.
If it’s not Bill W’s AA, then what is it? Is it really AA ???? How does that work? Can you just make up your own AA?
Do the drug courts that send you the biggest part of your membership know that you are making up your own AA? This kind of thing seems to be happening a lot within your organizations!
Does your “ EASY DOES IT GROUP” recite the Bill W, AA traditions and the part about not engaging in controversy at beginning of your meetings every day? Do they mean anything?
It’s obvious that they don’t mean much to the A A SUNRISE GROUP!
travis- said “Go fuck yourself & stick that camera up your ass.
looks like you are filled with the fear mongering love & light that you steppers are filled with. What a way to talk on a blog. I can’t imagine how hostile you would be in person.
AA and NA is currently so filled with 3rd level sex offenders and violent criminals, that people in AA are getting murdered. AA does not teach people once they stop drinking how to handle their anger or their feelings. In fact AA tells you, that you are not suppose to get angry. That is a “luxury for normal men” Really?
SO why then when one walks into an AA or NA meeting are they the most angry looking people in one spot I have ever seen?
Oh, I get it… You’re going to the wrong meetings!! Either that, or you stepped into a room full of newcomers. Or into a room with a bunch of assholes. If I step into a room where I don’t see people smiling and laughing, I’m outta there. Were you in AA & it didn’t work for you? If not, why were you at a meeting? If you weren’t at a meeting, how do you know? Pretty much all the folks I know in AA are generally pretty happy, after they’ve been there a while. I’m not an angry person, however I’m not gonna let a bunch of folks who are ignorant to the fact that NOT ALL OF AA IS BAD just sit here and rant and rave without throwing in my two cents… Ok, I apologize, maybe the F-off and camera comment were off key, but I got my point across. Where are people getting murdered in AA, by the way?
It really isn’t AA’s fault if there’s murderers and sex offenders there, kind of like a church that has people like that.. it would be nice to background check everybody, but that’s just not feasible. People don’t really divulge that info voluntarily. If anybody needs scolding, it’s the judges and courts and penal system for sending them to AA… Hmm, I really can’t remember the last time I heard someone say,” I was sent to AA because I’m a child rapist.” Usually it’s ,”I was sent to AA because I got a DUI.” There’s other places for people like that. All AA caters to is suggestions on how to get and stay sober. Those other matters are definately outside issues. Those-people-are-everywhere!! I don’t condone that type of behavior & neither does ANY of the people that I associate with in AA!! I have a young daughter that comes with me ( she likes to go to the club, there are other kids, well behaved kids,who go with their parents, aunts, uncles,etc) on the weekend sometimes. There is an area where I go where you can bring your kid and it’s safe!! You guys must just be hearing fabricated or the 1 bad to every 100 good stories about AA. We have AA picnics, bike week events, bbq’s, bowling, dances, and other events where everyone is welcome. I have not heard one horror story yet that was directly caused by AA. Your thoughts…
READ THE ARTICLES IN THE ARCHIVES OF THIS PUBLIC AWARENESS WEBSITE IF YOU HAVE AN HONEST INTEREST IN WHAT’S BEEN GOING ON!
You advocate bringing children to these meetings, maybe you should read this article!
If they’re sending sex predators and pedophiles to AA and NA meetings to keep them away from kids on Halloween, why would it be a good idea to have meetings in a place with a bunch of kids around, like say a park?
Not exactly a “MICROCOSM OF SOCIETY,” as loyalists in denial would have us believe!
http://www.mass.gov/courts/probation/pr110210.html
Amen Travis. I came across this site by accident. I go to AA in NYC and I have never ever heard of one person being assaulted, raped or murdered. Like you I have never heard one horror story. All of the people I know look out for each other. Yes, we get people “mandated” by the courts but only for alcohol related offenses namely DUI/DWI. Sometimes others are “mandated” by probation or parole. AA does not invite people in as this site would have people believe. We welcome others who are suffering the way we once suffered. I personally don’t condone nor do I support Seems like there are a lot of disgruntled former 12 step members who need a place to vent their misdirected frustrations at. The groups I attend are largely like yours where events are planned for anyone who wants to come, including children. BBQ’s, dances, holiday parties and even “share-a-thons” for the holidays. Safe places. I see more hatred on this board than I have ever seen in meetings. This is not to say that all meetings are good but like you said if you go to a room where people aren’t laughing and smiling you are out of there, same here. I have only seen people get this bent out of shape who feel they have been wronged or that the program has failed them. The program has remained largely unchanged in principles, people do change that that in no way should give anyone free license to spread blatant and dangerous lies. AA saved my life and the lives of many generations of my family, for that I will be greatful. All of the doubters here obviously have been jaded by bad experiences. We can educate only those with an open mind. We should stick to helping others who want to get better. Forget the haters they’ll continue to wallow in anger and negativity while you and I keep getting better.
Until recently Alcoholics Anonymous had been very successful with their campaign to influence the media to not say anything that might put them in a “ Bad Light.”
Did you know that? It’s a fact!
You said, “you never ever heard of one person being assaulted, raped or murdered.” You also said, “you have never heard one horror story.”
REALLY?
If you were to find out that there have been MANY people who have been abused and victimized by AA and NA members they came into contact with at meetings, would you want to know the truth and be willing to admit it?
OR WOULD YOU RATHER DENY IT AND KEEP IT ALL COVERED UP?
Would you care if it turned out that many of these victims were not helped by other AA/NA members and that great efforts were made to keep it all quiet just to protect the organizations image?
Well thank goodness we live in the modern age where coverups are becoming harder to get away with! There are a years worth of news articles in the Monthly Archives of this public awareness website that might raise your awareness.
What is so disturbing is that world services knows all about these problems but refuses to do anything to try to make its members safer by implementing basic safety policies to protect the vulnerable!
These are facts that anyone, WHO CARES TO KNOW THE TRUTH, can easily find out for themselves!
READ THROUGH THE NEWS ARTICLES IN THE MONTHLY ARCHIVES ON THIS PUBLIC AWARENESS WEBSITE’S HOMEPAGE!
I’ll send you a couple of links to articles to help raise your awareness.
Hi Tammy, here is a WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE about the out-of-control, predatory A A MIDTOWN GROUP. This one also made it into NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE, even though I’m sure that AA would prefer this all to be kept covered up!
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2007/07/midtown_group_aa_group_leads_m.html
Here’s the corresponding NEWSWEEK article link.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2007/05/06/a-struggle-inside-aa.html
Remember this HORROR STORY?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-05/justice/chesire.connecticut.murders_1_steven-hayes-jennifer-hawke-petit-gag-order?_s=PM:CRIME
More about that one
http://nadaytona.org/2012/01/27/na-member-sentence-to-death-in-petit-connecticut-murders/
EASTER MORNING, March 31st 2013,
It was a beautiful morning! Families were out early, enjoying the park and setting up for the annual Easter festivities for the children at Sunrise Park in Holly Hill Florida.
The citizens of this community are grateful to the city Council for implementing the NO SMOKING POLICY in all Holly Hill Parks!
SUNRISE PARK was literally covered in cigarette butts before VOLUNTEERS took the time to pick up almost every cigarette butt in the park!
MOST PEOPLE are respecting Holly Hill’s
NO SMOKING POLICY!
The children and all who come to the parks to enjoy fresh air and a natural
“ cigarette butt free” environment appreciate these law-abiding citizens!
This ordinance has been in place for about 1/2 a year now.
THIS EASTER MORNING, the Daytona Beach Alcoholics Anonymous, “Sunrise Group” monopolized the pavilion directly adjacent to the playground equipment for their advertised, weekly- non-reserved, noncompliant meeting.
Those who were setting up for the Easter celebration could plainly see smoking going on at the AA meeting on this Easter morning just steps from the playground!
Apparently the organizers and other members at the meeting did not care enough about respecting Holly Hill Park policy to instruct their fellow members to please put out the cigarettes!
Taking a walk around the park on this Easter morning, before the children’s Easter egg hunt, We noticed that cigarette butts are becoming thick all over the ground again !
Once again, we thank our city officials for moving in the right direction by implementing the NO SMOKING POLICY and we thank the responsible citizens who respect and abide by it!
THE DAYTONA BEACH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS GROUP, “SUNRISE GROUP” AND DAYTONA BEACH NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS GROUPS still refuse to properly reserve and pay their way for a place to conduct their business and hold their meetings, as all others are expected to do!
They do this every week and in doing so are also making a conscious choice not to comply with the AA\NA 7th tradition of paying their way for a meeting room!
THESE GROUPS COLLECT MONEY FROM PEOPLE AT THESE WEEKLY MEETINGS IN THE PARK.
THIS IS ALSO NON-COMPLIANT WITH PARK POLICY!
IF THE MONEY THEY’RE COLLECTING DOES NOT GO TO PAY THEIR WAY, THEN WHY ARE THEY TAKING THE MONEY?
We would ask that city officials and staff would PLEASE honestly and fairly review this situation….
to hold this CORPORATE ENTITY to the same policies and laws that everyone else is expected to abide by.
We would also ask them to take a good walk around the Park, pavilions and parking lots, to take notice of the excessive amount of cigarette butts that have once again accumulated!
It’s a shame that while the children searched for their Easter eggs this Easter morning, they had to look at so many cigarette butts all over the ground!
THE NO SMOKING ORDINANCE IN HOLLY HILL CITY PARKS, THAT WAS DECIDED ON BY CITY OFFICIALS, WAS THE RIGHT DECISION. JUST LOOK AT ALL THE CIGARETTE BUTTS ON THE GROUND AT THE PARK.
IT’S TIME FOR A GOOD CLEAN SWEEP AGAIN!
WE SUPPORT FOLLOW- THROUGH WITH ENFORCING THE NO SMOKING, NO LITTERING AND PARK PAVILION RENTAL POLICIES !
MUCH LOVE, HAPPY EASTER!!!
You stated “AA does not invite people in as this site would have people believe ” That is just a bold faced lie! There is no debating about that Tammy! AA has been going into mental institutions and prisons for over 50 years! This is nothing new. The Hospital and Institutions Division of each AA District goes into mental institutions, jails and prisons. They have an aggressive plan to get people to meetings on their first day out by offering them rides!
So not only does AA and NA work with the judicial systems to mandate mentally deranged felons, they pick them up and drive them to AA and NA Meetings!
Also AA has a lot more than DWI in their mix. They have child molesters and wife beaters. Sit in domestic court for a day and see how many men that beat their wifes and kids get mandated to attend AA meetings!
I WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO READERS FOR THE FOUL LANGUAGE AND DISTURBING,THREATENING COMMENT’S POSTED BY ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS MEMBER,
TRAVIS
This is rare to be exposed to this type of language on this site so please don’t be turned away by it!
I have been told that the administrators of this site have made a concerted effort to keep it factual and free of vulgar language that would be inappropriate for our readers.
They get some unbelievably vulgar, violent comments from members of these organizations and most of it is filtered to protect those reading from being subjected to it.
The only time I have ever noticed this type of language to be posted was when I suppose they felt it was relevant,once in a while, to reveal the offensive and violent nature of the member.
It certainly provides a clear example of the aggressive, above the law disposition of so many Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous members that we in Holly Hill Florida parks have been threatened by!
Censored, not filtered. One sided. That’s called “propaganda”. The Nazi’s used it.
😉
Well you should know right? Hanging out with all the Nazi Sponsors spreading Bill W’s propaganda.
On the other hand after AA monopolizing and controlling what is written about them in the press for decades, now people who know the darkside of AA can actually have a voice !
I know that really bothers you guys that the truth is coming out- but it has been way overdue.
AA’s propaganda is being exposed more and more.
Just how much do you think the general public knows that killers and rapist are sent to AA meetings everyday in this country? Not many. In time with sites like this , people will be much more informed to the realities of the demographic that makes up much of meetings today.
Maybe you “concerned citizens” should be a little bit more “concerned” about the known pedophiles and perverts who frequent the bathrooms there after dark or the “johns” who bring hookers out to the docks to have sex with… Just saying…
See ya’ll next Sunday!!
Yes that is another major concern in Holly Hill Parks as well. It does not help though that both AA and NA invite and welcome pedophiles, perverts, killers, rapist and hookers to AA/NA meetings. This a big part of your member demographic. Many members have been raped and murdered by people being mandated by the courts to 12 step meetings and by 13 steppers with longtime sobriety who prey on vulnerable newcomers.
I’m a proud member of the Easy Does It Club in Ormond Beach and sometimes attend the Sunrise Group… First of all, AA saved my life. You assholes need to learn a little about worrying about what YOU do instead of what everybody else around you is doing. Second of all, I’m glad that a fellow member snatched that camera out of your hand a while back… let’s just say you’re lucky it wasn’t me. I’m not quite “there” yet. I would of smashed it on the ground and there would have been NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE ABOUT IT. I’m not a good example of the “spiritual alcoholic”, I have no problem telling you how I feel and I’m not worried about hurting your feelings. Try using your real names, by the way, tough guys. See you next Sunday!!
Travis 3%er , 4 years
Travis- It does not surprise me that the Sunrise Group continue to spread lies! The FACT is that no one EVER snatched a camera out of anyones hands in the parks. Just like no AA member or local citizens has ever been trespassed from the park because of conflict with AA/NA or taking pictures in Sunrise Park.
There was a Sunrise Group AA member who was asked to leave Sunrise Park for the day this year because of his aggressive behavior to citizens and local police. He was yelling, cussing, screaming and threatening. He had obvious mental problems. He was a court mandated AA member for criminal behavior.
Also I do not know where you get the idea you can go around and snatch camera’s out of people’s hands and not be arrested for it. That is against the law. I do realize that AA thinks they are above the law, but they are not. Sunrise Park is a public park and people can take pictures of anything and anyone. It is a constitutional right. But violence IS against the law. Destruction of private property IS against the law. You will be arrested if you become violent or destroy someone’s property in the park.
So Travis why does your group continue to break the rules of the park? Why do you think you can go around comitting crimes without being arrested? I do not think Bill W. would approve.
WELL, HERE WE ARE ON ANOTHER SUNDAY and anyone who was in SUNRISE PARK was able to witness the NON-ACCOUNTABLE, DAYTONA BEACH ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, ” SUNRISE GROUP ” proving once again what we in this community have known for years!
THEY DON’T RESPECT OUR COMMUNITY!!
THE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS GROUP “SUNRISE GROUP” IS WELL AWARE OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NO SMOKING LAW FOR ALL HOLLY HILL CITY PARKS.
APPARENTLY THIS LAW DOES NOT APPLY TO REGULAR LONG-TIME SPONSORS AND MEMBERS OF THESE ANONYMOUS ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE CHOOSING TO FLAUNT THEIR “ABOVE THE LAW” FEELING OF ENTITLEMENT BY DEFIANTLY CHAIN- SMOKING, THEREBY ENCOURAGING NEWCOMERS TO DO THE SAME.
THEY LAUGH AND JOKE ABOUT IT WITH ANIMATED ZEAL AS THEY LIGHT UP AND SMOKE ONE AFTER ANOTHER. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY CONTINUE TO ENJOY BEING LOCKED INTO THIS LONG-RUNNING CONTROVERSY WITH OUR COMMUNITY BY DISPLAYING TOTAL DISREGARD FOR IT’S CITIZENS AND LAWS WEEK AFTER WEEK!
THIS REPRESENTS A CLEAR EXAMPLE TO ANYONE WHO MAY HAVE QUESTIONED THE DISRESPECT THAT WE KNOW THESE GROUPS, HAVE LONG EXHIBITED FOR THEIR OWN TRADITIONS, THE CITIZENS OF THIS COMMUNITY AND THE LAW!
THEY STILL REFUSE TO HONOR THEIR OWN 7TH TRADITION AND PAY THEIR WAY FOR A “SUITABLE PLACE” TO ADVERTISE AS “THEIR PLACE OF BUSINESS.”
IN THEIR BROCHURES THEY ADVERTISE OUR PARK AS “THEIR REGULAR SMOKING, MEETING PLACE!”
THESE ANONYMOUS GROUPS ARE LARGELY MADE UP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LET OUT OF JAIL EARLY AND THEN SENT TO THE UNSUPERVISED MEETINGS TO “COMPLY WITH THE LAW!”
WHAT KIND OF EXAMPLE ARE THESE LONG-TIME SPONSORS AND MEMBERS SETTING FOR THE NEW ONES STRAIGHT FROM JAIL WHEN IT COMES TO BASIC COMMON CONSIDERATION AND RESPECT FOR PEOPLE AND LAWS?
I can’t believe they are still smoking in the park. When is Holly Hill going to do something about this? This is just not right. Many were smoking this past Sunday, while people exercising had to walk by and smell and inhale the second hand smoke!
You speak the truth, I witnessed it! I see what you mean about the AA group in Sunrise Park continuing to disrespect the city of Holly Hill’s no smoking ordinance. It just goes on and on with their above the law mentality. Other than that it was a beautiful morning in the park.
There were all kinds of people out today with their cameras taking pictures of all kinds of things! I and others were out taking a walk and getting some exercise as cigarette smoke wafted over into peoples faces from the AA meeting nearby. There was smoking at the meeting and smoking in the parking lot by regular members after the meeting. Someone told me that these groups are still advertising smoking meetings at Holly Hill Parks in their brochures.
Every week since the signs have been clearly posted, this Daytona Beach AA Sunrise group allows it’s members to blow smoke at those who walk on the exercise trail just steps away. Daytona AA/NA can’t monopolize Daytona parks and run people off this way! Why is Holly Hill the only city in the area that allows these disrespectful groups to break the law as well as monopolize city parks without proper permits?
Very good question- A Sunrise Group member has a spouse working in Holly Hill City Hall. That has been a big problem.
The Daytona AA “SUNRISE GROUP” and their N/A counterparts have for years DISREGARDED the AA 7th TRADITION concerning ” PAYING THEIR WAY.”
They advertise regularly scheduled rehab business meetings at parks and consistently run people out of Park pavilions by the playgrounds, with a sense of entitlement.
They monopolize the Park/ Playground as their regular place of business yet refuse to honor their 7th tradition and rent the facilities.
A short while back, the Holly Hill Police had to made an official visit the Park to inform the Daytona AA “SUNRISE GROUP” that the “NO SMOKING” signs, that had been clearly posted for long time, applies to everyone in the park…. even to AA members!
After that official warning from the police, AA members finally started to make an effort, after long ignoring the signs.
This warning from the Holly Hill police however seems to be quickly wearing off for some members if they feel that no one is watching and they can get away with it!
TODAY, January 27, 2013, some Daytona Beach AA “SUNRISE GROUP” members were seen smoking in the park by more than one witness.
Do the police have to come back out so soon to instruct this organization to make it clear to their members to respect city no smoking Park policy?
Looks like they might. They are a hard headed group that is considered a ‘rogue AA group’ by it’s peers. They do not follow their traditions and pay for services or respect the laws of the City Of Holly Hill.
They continue to show they think they are above the law.
I know how arrogant “some” of these people can be; yet I am amazed that they are ignoring the sign and choose to disrespect the parks wishes. Definitely looks like a group of people suffering from a sense of entitlement. They should be grateful to have such a lovely place for their cult meetings. Their behavior is dishonorable and clearly shows a lack of character and acceptance of the rules etc. Are they not hearing the few valuable lessons that a dis-functional person “might” learn in a meeting. I could Slap them when I look at those pictures.
I have a dumb question: Is the no smoking policy on the sign considered a request only or is it actually a law. Either way they are evil to disrespect the sign and very childish; I might add. Do they know they cant get into real trouble at the present time and have determined that they can get away with being jerks.
If you are reading this and one of the individuals who choose to continue to smoke in that lovely park; “YOU ARE WORKING A LOUSY PROGRAM AND VERY IMMATURE. GROW UP AND STOP BEING SO SELF-ABSORBED. By the way, I am a smoker at the present time (not proud of it) but you would not catch me smoking in a park where a no smoking sign was posted. If you can not contain yourself; talk to your higher power.
cont: Otherwise, I would LOVE to hear your side of the story. How do you justify your disrespect?
These are official park regulations that if people smoke in the park they can get trespassed from the park for 6 months! The sign states ‘violators will be prosecuted!” We shall see how this plays out.
I have noticed if you give these groups an inch they take a mile and abuse often any kindness shown by churches and other property owners that rent to them. That is why they are asked to leave places they rent because of their behavior and refusal to pay rent or keep it current.
Yes 4thechildren-
Here are just some of the Countries that recently visited this site!
United States, Netherlands, China, France, Russian Federation, Ukraine, Great Britain, Romania, Canada, Germany, Japan, Poland, Spain, Belgium, Australia, Sweden, Latvia, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Vietnam, Ireland, Philippines, Argentina, Morocco,Turkey……..
We are also on the first page of Google!
So AA Daytona and NA Daytona can give themselves credit for helping reveal the dangers and cult practices of 12 step programs, by their threatening, atrocious, arrogant, bullying, criminal behaviors. Yes it opened the eyes of many locals in Holly Hill Florida, which spearheaded the grassroots efforts to expose AA and NA for what they really represent on a global level.
Wow , what a sign. Cant they see it? Of course not. They have special eyes. Above the law eyes!:)
They think they are special and above the law.
The fact that the Alcoholics Anonymous “Sunrise Group” from Daytona Beach is continuing to disregard the concerns of the citizens of Holly Hill is nothing new and does not surprise me! Even though Daytona Beach has around 100 parks, they do not monopolize any of their own parks this way.
WHY IS THAT??
They monopolize Holly Hill parks because they know they can get away with things here that they would not be able to in Daytona, Ormond or Volusia County Parks! This group has long displayed an emboldened sense of entitlement and a feeling of being above the law.
This defiant Daytona Beach AA group, that continues to fan the flames of controversy along with their Daytona N/A counterpart, are now famous for being the reason that this worldwide public awareness website came to be.
With all that our citizens and park patrons have been through with these groups over the years and finding themselves with no place to turn for help,this site originated as a follow-up on a community interest story and a call for help.
So much has been learned about the dangerous, non-accountable nature of these organizations since then.
This public awareness site has since come a long way and I hear there are visits now from around the world!
If they only followed their own so-called “nonnegotiable” traditions and paid attention to what they read at the beginning of every meeting, concerning the Bill W. warning not to engage in controversy with the general public, they would not have been responsible for making his worst nightmare come true!
They are a very Narcissistic Organization. It is all about them. They want people to treat them special because they are either thinking about getting sober or actually have become sober. What about those of us that have not screwed up our lives and obeyed the law? Why should 12 steppers get special treatment when many have nearly destroyed their lives and those of others including loved ones?
I am not surprised that this AA group are breaking park regulations. They have not cared about our community whatsoever by hogging pavilions, running people off, littering, threatening and intimidating locals.