Pennsylvania AA member Robert Rene Ortgiesen was sentenced to jail for threatening to kill a fellow Alcoholics Anonymous member at an AA meeting, taking place at St John’s Church (Hope they have good insurance). Ortigesen was accussing the victim of selling drugs to other AA members at the meetings!
I wonder how many children or teenagers were at this AA meeting, considering they like going into our high schools and invite them to meetings. They say the ‘diversity’ of members is good for them. This practice is outrageous. Articles like this continue to prove that minors are not safe in AA or NA meetings.
Limerick man jailed for pipe assault at Pottstown AA meeting
NORRISTOWN – A Limerick man has admitted to using a pipe as a deadly weapon to assault another man during an altercation at an Alcoholics’ Anonymous meeting at a Pottstown church.
Robert Rene Ortgiesen, 47, of the first block of Annette Drive, was sentenced in Montgomery County Court to six to 23 months in the county jail after he pleaded guilty to a felony charge of aggravated assault in connection with the December 2011 incident. Judge William R. Carpenter, who accepted a plea agreement in the matter, also ordered Ortgiesen to complete four years’ probation after he’s paroled from jail.
By pleading guilty to the charge, Ortgiesen admitted that he attempted to cause or intentionally or knowingly caused bodily injury to another person with a deadly weapon, specifically, a pipe.
An investigation of Ortgiesen began, according to court papers, about 12:25 p.m. Dec. 28 when police responded to St. John’s Church, 301 Cherry St., after witnesses reported that an armed subject had pointed a gun at another person.
“The actual victim of the assault was unable to determine whether or not it was a gun or a pipe so we were satisfied that (Ortgiesen) was willing to admit that it was one of those two things,” said Assistant District Attorney Jesse King, explaining the nature of the plea agreement.
- Regardless of the weapon used, King said, jail was appropriate in the case.
- “Anytime you use a weapon on a person, that’s certainly a situation where we consider jail time. With a deadly weapon, it’s pretty much a no-brainer that someone should serve some time in jail. If you strike someone with a pipe…it can cause real damage and that’s why we take that sort of situation seriously,” King explained.
- Defense lawyer William DeNardo indicated Ortgiesen is remorseful.
- “My client obviously regrets that the confrontation between him and the complaining witness escalated to the point it did,” DeNardo said.
- When police arrived at the church, the suspect had already fled; however, the victim and several witnesses said a man known to them as Robert O. had confronted the victim with a gun, according to the arrest affidavit filed by Pottstown police officer Brooke Fisher.
- One witness claimed Ortgiesen told him he was going to “confront” the victim about dealing drugs at the meetings but the witness did not see the confrontation, Fisher wrote in the arrest affidavit.
- The victim explained that Ortgiesen got into an argument with him outside the church and the victim went inside the church. Once inside, Ortgiesen “came after (the victim) and put something against his neck” and slapped him on the back of the head, the victim told police.
- Ortgiesen allegedly told the victim: “Next (expletive) time you’re dead,” and then left the church, according to the criminal complaint.
- Two witnesses told police they saw Ortgiesen holding a gun and that Ortgiesen confronted the victim in front of all the AA members, according to the arrest affidavit. The witnesses also told police they heard Ortgiesen threaten to kill the victim.
- Fisher got a description of the vehicle Ortgiesen was in when he fled the scene, including the vehicle’s registration, and police were able to trace the vehicle to an address in Limerick.
- Limerick police responded to Ortgiesen’s residence where he was taken into custody.
- When police spoke with Ortgiesen, he said the victim “jumped him” and “threatened and punched him in the head,” police indicated in the arrest affidavit. Ortgiesen said he then went to his vehicle and retrieved a small piece of pipe, which he put to the victim’s neck.
- Ortgiesen told police he threw the piece of pipe out the window of his vehicle while driving back to Limerick.
- “They got into a verbal dispute about what my client believed the complaining witness was doing. That verbal dispute became physical and my client made the mistake of further escalating the dispute after it had initially subsided,” DeNardo said.
- Ortgiesen allegedly claimed he confronted the victim because the victim was “selling drugs to some of the AA members in the bathroom,” Fisher wrote in the affidavit. Court papers do not indicate if Ortgiesen’s suspicions were valid.
- “But whatever was happening, you certainly can’t walk up to somebody from behind and threaten them with an extreme form of violence,” King said.
- King said regardless of what Ortgiesen may have believed, he should not have taken matters into his own hands.
- “There’s no excuse for turning to violence on your own. He could have gone to police. He could have called a number of different people to rectify the situation without turning to violence himself,” King added.
I bet this happens more than reported in the news!
@ Patti, what exactly DID Bill W say to Lois when he made his amends, because it certainly sounds like you were there in the room with them. What a thrill that must’ve been for you. Also, that 97% you speak of fail to recover primarily because they aren’t honest with themselves. Sounds like you’re a 97%-er yourself.
Great Post on http://www.orange-papers.org
patti
Wed, 04/25/2012 – 20:43
Marietta’s Remarks are so typical AA
Marietta,
You are scary & you represent the AA controlled & narrow & empty mind. Regarding litigation & responsibility. If a waitress spills water on a customer, the restaurant is responsible, legally & can be sued. The restaurant hired her, she represents the restaurant. If a teacher curses out a class or student the school district is legally responsible & can & will be sued, the teacher was hired & retained by the school district & represents the school district. Controlling a 3 year old from smashing things up one’s home, not allowing this behavior is not comparable to not allowing sexual predatory in a well established & wealthy “spiritual” support group. A child can be controlled by an adult, it is not a even playing field. No victim of abuse is responsible for the abuser’s actions or behaviors. This is the 2nd abuse which occurs after the initial abuse, the abuser explains & blames the victim for the abuse! It is common knowledge that after a man physically abuse’s a woman, he blames her by saying it is her fault he gets so angry, she makes him so angry that he just has to beat her. Blame the victim. AA is famous for blaming the victim. The AA program fails 97% of the time, but it is the 97 % who are according to AA the problem, they didn’t work the steps right, they just didn’t do things right! Do the math, it is simple, only 3% are successful @ the program, the problem is the program not the 97%. Would a medical procedure or drug still be in existence or used as a treatment if it failed 97% of the time? Would it be the patient’s fault the procedure or drug didn’t work, that 97%? Wilson began victimizing women from the beginning. The step, not to admit wrong doing or make amends if doing so will hurt someone. Translation, Wilson wasn’t about to confess to Lois his infidelities either when drunk or sober. Lois was Wilson’s meal ticket, prior to AA & just in case AA didn’t work out & the books didn’t sell, Wilson wasn’t going to mess with not having Lois around to work & pay the bills. Was Wilson’s adultery Lois’s fault? What did Lois do to make Wilson have sex with Helen Wynn & many attractive & young, vulnerable & fragile female alcohol addicts? What did said female addicts do to make Wilson have to seduce & exploit & abuse them sexually when so, so, so vulnerable? Maybe the female addicts dressed in such a way that they were asking for it & what else could Wilson do but seduce them? Maybe Lois didn’t dress right & what could Wilson do but commit adultery? If a female works @ night & gets off a bus & has to walk home & gets raped, what could she have done differently to avoid that rape? Should she have stolen a car to get home safely? Should she have yelled @ & confronted the rapist & told him to stop it? AA is supposed to be a support group, one should feel & be safe @ a support group. If AA can or will not govern or provide a safe environment for it’s support groups then it is time to shut it down or spend some of the AA millions to provide security @ the meetings. Schools all over the country have taken actions to deal with & control the violence, to provide security & safety, so have playgrounds, recreation centers, etc. etc. These organizations & business’s & both government & privately run, spend the money & take the time to provide security & safety for people. There isn’t any reason that AA, can not hire security guards, armed to be @ each & every meeting, as a deterrent & as protection for it’s member’s. AA has the money & can afford to pay professional people to guard the “school teacher” in the corner. Additionally, no matter how much you deny it, no matter how much you twist the truth, double speak, no matter how much you lie, no matter how unreasonable or irrational you are, regardless of all those circumstance’s, AA like every other business or organization is responsible & accountable for it’s organization, meetings & members, legally & is subject to being held responsible & accountable in a courtroom & be sued. AA can & should be sued, just like any one else who runs their organization, business, property, etc. etc. negligently & irresponsibly. Bottom line & the truth, you can posture all you want that this isn’t the truth, it will not matter. AA will eventually collapse due to law suits, the big book & other literature sales revenue will not be able to survive the law suits, both individual & class, once they begin. Lawsuits have begun to collapse the Catholic church in many nations, the same thing will happen to AA. And it all started with Wilson, he was an immoral man, not responsible or accountable for his reprehensible abusive actions & neither is his group AA. Marietta, you really, seriously, desperately need help, professional help & you seriously really need to stop blaming the victim & to stop being an abuser. Marietta, get some help, try to stop being a part of the problem. Good luck.
patti
If your police don’t defend the public then go to the person above them. GO to the Media. Newspapers, Associated Press. Make it a National Story. Get an on camera reporter there.
Now, who is above the chief of police? Maybe he is in AA. I met a guy in Hawaii with 30 years who I found out was a police chief for two years. He lives in another state now and never attends any meeting at all in his state.
Talk to your Internal affairs, The Mayor….have they done nothing?
Now , I hear The Federal Marshals are interesting. Better even then the FBI when things are really messed up. Don’t give up. Remember Andy Duphrane in Shawshank Redemption? . He wrote letters for years before he got his money for his library. “keeper” a woman whose son was murdered and raped, by his AA sponsor kept all the information she could for 4 years and finally the Federal Marshalls were the ones to crack the case.
The Police were in on the “boy” traffic in this very small town. Gerald Estes was the killer. See story on American’s Most Wanted.
Nothing is more horrifying then the truth. I know her. I interviewed her for the Documentary that I am making.
Perhaps I should call the police, Mayor and all involved in this town of Holly Hill and see who will talk to me. Good idea! Thanks for the post.
Thank you for your great website …warning parents and the public is important.
Wow, this man brings his gun to the AA meeting to attack another member that sells drugs in the bathroom at the church where they meet! Nobody monitors these groups even though they are chock-full of people straight out of jail. At least the police in that area felt like they should do something about it and some of the people at their meeting actually helped when police questioned them. That’s not the way it works around here. People at the parks in our area in Holly Hill Florida get their lives threatened and members just cover it all up. What’s worse is the police don’t follow up on anything and always blame the ordinary people at the park, I guess to protect AA and NA’s precious name.