NA Daytona Beach Florida and AA Daytona has the same practice of keeping crimes to themselves. Check out the article ‘The Rude Awakening’ in the stories section written by local citizens who have been the victims of this dangerous practice.
Secrets kept, secrets shared — AA member’s murder revelation raises confidentiality question
LEWISTON — An Alcoholics Anonymous member’s story began with the arrival of a Lewiston police officer.
“This is an anonymous program,” the member told him. “No one’s going to tell you if he’s here or not.” A moment later, the frustrated officer walked out, and the meeting resumed.
The suspect had been there the whole time, seated in the front row.
“It was his choice to identify himself or not,” the member said. And each person attending the meeting chose silence rather than break with AA’s 76-year history.
People who attend are anonymous. And what’s said among its members is secret.
“It’s commonly accepted that you don’t go blabbing around what you’ve heard,” said another longtime member.
Yet, some secrets are bigger than others.
On July 11, an Alcoholics Anonymous member and sponsor, Floyd Nadeau of Lewiston, met with police.
He told police that his sponsee, Bob Ryder, 20, of Lewiston, told him he had killed a woman and buried her body in the basement of his 417 Main St. home, according to a police affidavit.
Within hours of Nadeau’s report, police found the body of 38-year-old Danita Brown. Ryder was later charged with murder.
Nadeau had known about the death for two weeks, according to court records. But he held onto the information, reluctant to come forward because of his belief in AA’s confidentiality. He finally went to police after talking with his own sponsor.
AA confidentiality based on tradition
Legally, secrets among Alcoholics Anonymous members aren’t that secret.
The protections that apply to conversations with certain people — lawyers, doctors and clergy — do not apply to people in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Common practice and tradition, rather than law, keep their secrets, said a member who serves as AA’s public information chairwoman for Maine and New Brunswick.
“All we can do is ask,” said the woman, who did not want her name used. “Sponsors are asked ethically, by our traditions, not to divulge anything about a sponsee.”
Traditions don’t include criminal behavior, though.
“We warn newcomers, ‘If you divulge a criminal act, you’re putting yourself and everyone else in the room in jeopardy,’” she said. Most sponsors would go to police.
“By law, we would have to react,” she said.
A longtime member put it more bluntly.
“AA has no laws,” he said. “There’s no rules. There’s no governing bodies. None of us get paid.”
People who hear something in a meeting or in a conversation with a sponsor need to decide for themselves what to do, he said. And bad stuff will come up.
“This has to be looked at realistically,” he said. “This is not Utopia.”
On the other hand, most of AA’s secrets are more personal.
Part of a typical meeting includes frank personal stories, often looking at the damage done to families by alcohol-fueled neglect or affairs.
“Nobody wants that shit out there,” said the long-time member.
Law: Few secrets are safe
People have tried to keep AA’s discussions a secret from police and the courts.
In 2002, New York’s 2nd Circuit Court struck down a decision that compared Alcoholics Anonymous relationships to those of a parishioner and a priest. In that case, a murder was disclosed to several AA members; the talk wasn’t spiritual, the court ruled.
In Maine, discussion among Alcoholics Anonymous members has no legal right to secrecy, said attorney Paul Chaiken, a former president of the Maine Bar Association.
However, a growing number of groups are asking for confidentiality.
It’s widening the gray area where secrets lie, he said.
“You have to ask, ‘Who are you protecting? What’s the policy? What’s the rationale?” Chaiken said.
Many of the new people trying to protect secrets are counselors and therapists who may have licenses but lack some of the formal training of psychiatrists and lawyers, who have some legal standing for confidentiality, or the history of the clergy-penitent relationship, which protects conversations between a priest or minister and a parishioner in certain cases.
Adding to the gray area are differences in law — federal law is less broad in its protection — and the rules of evidence that maintain the confidentiality of some conversations may apply in the courtroom but not apply in some profession’s licensing boards, Chaiken said.
Ongoing and subtle changes in the law make confidentiality a hot topic in medical school and in ongoing training for doctors, said Dr. Michael Kelley, a psychiatrist at St. Mary’s Regional Medical Center.
It can be a chore to keep up, Kelley said.
The same goes for lawyers. The Maine Bar’s rules governing confidentiality go on for nearly 5,000 words, creating a maze of rules.
“You need the (client) to be comfortable that what was said was private,” Chaiken said.
Most exclusions are aimed at preventing harm to people who might be hurt if confidentiality were maintained, balanced by the need to preserve a client’s right to speak openly with a lawyer.
Moral quandaries
When Dr. Kelley meets with a new patient to begin one-on-one counseling, he starts with a warning.
“I need you to understand that everything we say is confidential with a couple of exceptions,” he says. “The main exception is if anybody is in danger or you, yourself, are in danger, then I have to break that.”
The mandate serves as a kind of escape hatch for someone who is both a dedicated professional and a decent citizen.
Secrecy is needed, Kelley said. Without it, some people will miss treatment.
“I’m a substance-abuse specialist,” he said. “If I report every person that ever says they drove drunk, guess what? Nobody’s going to come in and get help for their alcohol dependence or at least they won’t be honest about it.”
During confidential sessions, he has heard people confess to embezzlement, drug-dealing and fraud.
“Ethically, I’m going, ‘Oh my God. I know this person who has done this horrible thing,” he said. But unless he fears someone might come to harm, he cannot talk.
“It’s a moral quandary because on the one hand, if I report everybody who tells me anything illicit they have done, I’m not going to have any patients and they’re not going to get any help.”
The worse the crime, the tougher it can be to remain silent, he said.
“I don’t think there’s a doctor who would hesitate to report a murder,” Kelley said.
As secret as secret gets
If a conversation comes between a member of the clergy and a parishioner during the sacrament of confession, there are no loopholes. It’s as secret as secret gets.
“It’s the highest level of confidentiality and does not admit us any exceptions,” said Monsignor Marc Caron, who leads Lewiston’s Prince of Peace Parish.
“But I think it is often misunderstood,” Caron said. “It is not just any conversation. It is the conversation of a Catholic coming to the priest in order to confess their sins and receive forgiveness in the sacrament of reconciliation. That level of confidentiality we would consider as being imposed on us by divine law, not even church law.
“The nature of that interaction in itself demands absolute and complete confidentiality, even after the person’s death,” Caron said. “Maine law, so far anyway, does see it as a protected form of speech. New Hampshire law, I believe, does not.”
If someone disclosed plans to hurt or even murder someone during confession, the priest would be bound by his oath to keep silent. And Maine law wouldn’t require him to speak.
But that’s not how the confessional works, Caron said.
“It’s about sins committed,” he said. “It’s about the past.”
But most of his discussions with parishioners are more comparable to Kelley’s discussions, with the same mandate to report threats of physical harm.
Caron respects his legal duty, he said, but such incidents are rare, he said. Most of his talks with people are about their day-to-day lives and family issues.
“They’re much more mundane and they’re much more about relationships,” he said. And if he hears that someone has committed a crime, he asks them to ’fess up.
“We say, ‘Listen, you’ve got to be honest with yourself and others about what’s going on,” Caron said.
‘You can be free’
Moments before the start of a local Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, as men made coffee and stacked literature on a table, a man raised a small poster with the words, “Think, think, think, think about it!”
For the hour that followed, guys talked about drinking and the damage that alcohol had wrought in their lives.
Though some of the men knew Ryder and Nadeau, nobody talked about the dead woman or the alleged confession. As an organization, Alcoholics Anonymous avoids controversy. It takes no outside donations and doesn’t comment on the news. Even its public information volunteers request anonymity from the news.
“AA is very general,” one volunteer said. “It’s the 12 steps and the 12 principals and the 12 concepts (forming the doctrine of Alcoholics Anonymous) and that’s about it.”
What members do and say is up to them, the volunteer said.
The meeting gave answers, though. People talked about growing up and taking responsibility for their own actions.
After the meeting, a longtime member said that a member who commits a crime is encouraged to confess to the authorities. End the secrecy.
The reason is simple: An unsettled crime will make the alcoholism worse.
“Face up,” he said. “Our suggestion is you go face it and do whatever punishment is due.”
“Then you can be free of it,” he said.
Keep coming back!
Oh, wait…
After reading the above article, check out the ( related news articles in the comments below!)
Then check out this “RUDE AWAKENING” link below about how and why this website got started.
http://nadaytona.org/rude-awakening/
One can only wonder…. why the would courts mandate/ sentence so many dangerous offenders to mix with the vulnerable for “compliance” in a organization without any safety guidelines or accountability whatsoever? There is almost no cooperation with police investigations from members and sponsors when abuses occur!
Why would these organizations schedule their unregulated, unsupervised meetings with a non-accountable, high-risk population to take place in a PARK/ PLAYGROUND where children play?
Police: Suspect used clock to kill victim in Lewiston murder case
Christopher Williams, Staff Writer
Lewiston-Auburn | Friday, July 15, 2011
AUBURN — A Lewiston man has been charged with killing a 38-year-old woman whose decomposing body was found in the basement of the man’s Main Street apartment earlier this week.
Danita Brown of New Gloucester died from blunt-force head trauma, according to a Maine State Police affidavit filed in Androscoggin County Superior Court on Friday.
Bob W. Ryder, 20, of Lewiston, now faces a murder charge. Ryder has been held in the Androscoggin County Jail on a charge of violating his probation since early Tuesday morning. His appearance in court to hear the new charge against him has been set for 1 p.m. Tuesday, July 19.
According to the sworn affidavit, written by Maine State Police Detective Scott Gosselin, Ryder told his Alcoholics Anonymous sponsor that he hit Brown in the head with a clock and killed her, then buried her body under some wood in the corner of the basement under his first-floor apartment. That sponsor, Floyd Nadeau, told police Monday night about Ryder’s confession.
Nadeau told police that Ryder told him about killing Brown about two and a half weeks earlier when Nadeau was at Ryder’s apartment. Ryder identified Brown as a prostitute and said he had caught her going through his wallet before he killed her. Nadeau doubted Ryder’s confession, so Ryder took Nadeau into the basement and showed him Brown’s body, according to the affidavit.
Nadeau said he was reluctant to go to police with the information for fear of breaking the AA confidentiality agreement. Nadeau’s AA sponsor persuaded him to report the alleged crime. Nadeau provided police with details about the location of the body.
Later that night, Lewiston police went to Ryder’s apartment and found him there. After getting permission from Ryder for a search, police gained access to the basement through a trap door in a closet. A detective descended a ladder into the basement and, smelling the odor of decomposition, found Brown’s body. He took pictures of the body and the basement area.
Ryder was later interviewed at the Lewiston police station on Park Street. He told Lewiston and Maine State Police detectives that he and Nadeau had met Brown when they went cruising on Pine Street for a prostitute, Gosselin’s affidavit says. Ryder said he paid Brown a total of $200 over a period of several days during which she would leave to buy drugs. They eventually had sex, but he got angry when she complained about her family and personal problems.
After Brown took money from his wallet, Ryder became “enraged,” the affidavit said. Ryder, who served in the U.S. Marines and said he had been discharged due to mental health issues, told police he blacked out and experienced a post-traumatic stress disorder flashback, which caused him to hit Brown in the head several times with a large wooden clock he kept beside his bed. He said he hadn’t cleaned her blood off the clock.
When he realized she was dead, Ryder moved her body to the basement where it was coolest, he told police. She was naked below the waist. He buried her pants and underpants in the basement.
Ryder said Nadeau advised him to use baking soda to help remove the odor from Brown’s corpse, so he used his food stamp card at a nearby 7-11 store to buy a package of it, he told police.
On Friday, after becoming aware of Ryder’s explanation to police, Nadeau strenuously denied advising him to cover the odor. “I had nothing to do with it,” Nadeau said, “and I’ve been cleared.”
Although Nadeau and Ryder had referred to Brown as Bernadette, Ryder identified Danita Brown from a photograph police showed him.
Two detectives from the Lewiston Police Department and Maine State Police interviewed Nadeau shortly before 1:30 a.m. Tuesday. He gave a similar account of meeting Brown with Ryder. He said Ryder described his fatal encounter with Brown, telling Nadeau that he hit her with his wall clock after he discovered she had looked in his wallet. He said Ryder showed him Brown’s body, but she was dressed in jeans and a tank top and had a white cloth on her head. Nadeau said he told Ryder to keep him out of it and that it was Ryder’s problem.
Police also interviewed Ryder’s brother, Melvin Ryder-Barry, who had lived in the Main Street apartment since April.
Ryder-Barry told police Bob Ryder had a woman at the apartment one night, and Ryder-Barry woke up early the next morning to the sound of a female groaning. Ryder was pacing in the next room, asking the woman, “Are you OK?”
When the two brothers talked later, Ryder explained that the woman had been a virgin. Ryder-Barry told police he found a red spot on Ryder’s bedsheets the next day.
Police technicians found underpants, a reddish-brown sheet and a pair of sneakers buried in the dirt near Brown’s body. Police also found blood on the mattress of Ryder’s bed.
The last outgoing call on Brown’s cell phone was made at 1:41 a.m. on June 16; her last text message was sent two minutes later, police said.
cwilliams@sunjournal.com
http://www.sunjournal.com/city/story/1060484
Murder victim was ‘free spirit’
Sun Journal Staff CHRISTOPHER WILLIAMS, Staff Writer
Lewiston-Auburn | Saturday, July 16, 2011
LEWISTON — When Mike Tibbetts last talked to his fiancee on June 15, she told him she was on her way to a local hospital to be treated for a bad cough.
Danita Brown, 38, told Tibbetts she loved him. He told her they would fill her prescription for her bronchitis when she returned to their New Gloucester home.
But she never returned.
Police found her remains buried in the basement of a Main Street apartment building on Tuesday. Three days later, police brought a murder charge against Bob Ryder, 20, who allegedly confessed to her slaying.
A medical examiner said Brown had died from blunt-force trauma to the head.
Tibbetts said he tried to locate Brown when she failed to return to New Gloucester. He didn’t panic, knowing her way of changing plans at the last minute. She had family out of state that she’d sometimes visit impulsively, Tibbetts said.
Brown was a “free spirit” and Tibbetts was not a controlling person, he said. “I just assumed she was with friends,” he said.
He tried to reach her friends to learn of her whereabouts, but grew increasingly concerned as the days passed without word from her.
Then police told him they’d found her.
Tibbetts and Brown lived in New Gloucester with their 4-year-old son, Michael, and Brown’s 18-year-old daughter, Ellie.
The loss of Brown is slowly sinking in, Tibbetts said. He and the children are still in the “shock stage,” he said. Officials at the Maine Attorney General’s Office advised it likely would be a “very long process” of grieving.
Tibbetts and Brown met in the summer of 2005 when Brown was living with her grandmother in Gray. Their daughters were friends at Gray-New Gloucester High School and plotted to get their parents together, Tibbetts said. The couple had planned to marry.
Brown, who had nine children, had a passion for dogs, cooking and gardening.
She also liked to sing inspirational ballads. She loved dogs and dreamed of grooming and breeding dogs as a profession, Tibbetts said. She owned two dogs, a Rottweiler and a Rottweiler mix and had successfully bred two litters of pups, Tibbetts said.
Brown dropped out of high school as a teen but was working to attain a GED, he said.
She grew up in Gray with three sisters. Her mother died when Brown was 14 years old. She suffered from encephalitis as a child and the effects had been debilitating all her life, Tibbetts said.
Brown was a pack rat and had a sentimental streak, Tibbetts said.
***************
Danita Brown
Obituaries | Wednesday, July 20, 2011
LEWISTON — In loving memory; Danita Brown of New Gloucester, born Jan. 26, 1973, died July 12. Love of our lives. Daughter of Elaine Brown and Terry Burgess; mother of nine beautiful children, Devan, Ellie, Emily, Madison, Matthew, Sammy, Kaleel, Mitchy and Brandon; fiancee of Michael Tibbetts; other survivors include three adoring sisters, Deana, Jamie and Aryne
Danita loved her family and was so proud of her beautiful home. Always happy and smiling with a sparkle in her eye, even on the worst of days. She was loved by us all and will be in our hearts forever xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo….
Murder suspect has had rocky past
LINDSAY D. TICE LINDSAY D. TICE, Staff Writer
Lewiston-Auburn | Saturday, July 16, 2011
LEWISTON — In details gleaned from friends, family and Facebook, Bob Ryder’s history is rocky.
He was taken from his mother at age 3 and raised in Maine’s foster-care system, where he was moved from home to home and separated from a beloved brother. In 2010 he became the father of a little girl, but he hasn’t seen her in a while.
Last year, he proudly told friends and family he had joined the U.S. Marines, then shortly afterward said he was discharged because of mental health problems.
He lived for a time at Becket House, a Litchfield assisted-living facility for young adults dealing with mental illness, developmental disabilities or physical limitations, before moving over the winter to an apartment at 417 Main St. in Lewiston.
Ryder has battled alcoholism and mental illness, but those who know him said they never expected he’d be accused of violence.
“(I) cant even believe he would do this … just … wow … (I) want proof,” wrote one friend on Ryder’s Facebook page hours after Ryder was taken into custody in connection with the death of Danita Brown, whose decomposing body was found in his basement Monday night.
Ryder, 20, was originally held for violating probation that stemmed from a burglary conviction. On Friday, he was charged with murder.
Ryder’s aunt, Brenda French, of New York, knew him when he was a young child and reconnected with him over the phone and on Facebook in recent years. She said she knew he was dealing with depression and resentment over his childhood, and she encouraged him to seek help. Often on Facebook, Ryder wrote about hating his life and himself, including, in May, “time for me to go to hell.”
“There were a few times that I read some of his comments on Facebook and it just made me wonder if there was something going on,” French said. “It kind of, like, troubled me inside. It gave me an unsettled feeling.” She said she repeatedly offered to talk with Ryder if he needed someone.
Still, she said, “It sounded like he had some problems, but I was hoping that he could work those out. I never expected it would really come to something like this.”
ltice@sunjournal.com
Lewiston man to serve 21 years for killing woman
Lewiston-Auburn | Wednesday, February 27, 2013
AUBURN — Bob Ryder was sentenced Wednesday to serve 21 years in prison for the beating death of Danita Brown in 2011.
Ryder, 22, of Lewiston pleaded guilty in June to manslaughter. A murder indictment was dismissed.
At that time, Ryder told police he had paid Danita Brown, 38, of New Gloucester twice for sex and twice she’d taken the money and vanished. The third time, after meeting her at a downtown Lewiston market, Ryder gave Brown $100. She followed him home. They had sex. Afterward, he fractured her skull with a heavy wooden clock, he told police.
Ryder’s Alcoholics Anonymous sponsor went to police to tell them that Ryder had confided in him about the killing.
But Ryder changed his story several times before his plea, a prosecutor said Wednesday. In one version, he told police they didn’t have sex; in another, that he had blacked out. He said he caught Brown going through his wallet. At one point, he said someone else had killed her.
Not only is the exact chain of events unknown, so is the motive.
“It is unclear exactly why the defendant did this,” Assistant Attorney General Lisa Marchese said. “I’m not sure we will ever know. And certainly the court doesn’t know . . . only the defendant knows why he killed her.”
What’s clear, Marchese said, is that Ryder made an effort to conceal his crime by moving Brown’s bludgeoned body to the unfinished basement under his first-floor apartment at 417 Main St., Lewiston. He sprinkled baking soda on her body to lessen the odor of decomposition.
Marchese said Ryder had long fantasized about sexual aggression toward older women.
“Sadly, the death of Danita Brown under the circumstances of this case was almost predictable,” she said.
She said he was a danger to society and needed extensive counseling.
He was less than honorably discharged from the military. He burglarized a home, committed theft and, twice, trespass.
Marchese asked that Ryder serve 26 years in prison.
Justin Leary, Ryder’s attorney, said his client was a hard worker and a high school graduate who had no history of violence.
Ryder was able to sustain a “positive relationship” with a woman with whom he had a daughter, Leary said.
He said Ryder posed no heightened risk to the community and had recommitted to his religious faith.
“It was one burst of anger that caused this tragedy,” Leary said. Nothing was planned or premeditated.
Dressed in a blue jail suit, Ryder stood before the judge and said he was sorry for what he’d done and apologized to Brown’s family.
“I know what I did was wrong,” he said. “I’m going to stay doing what I need to do to change, so nothing like this ever happens again.”
Leary and others, including Ryder’s legal guardian for years, told the judge about the challenges he’s faced since he was a young child. He had been physically, sexually and emotionally abused, then moved through a succession of foster homes starting when he was 5 years old, they said.
“It was a very difficult life for a young man,” Maureen Dillane said.
The judge would later describe the abuse Ryder suffered during his upbringing as “unspeakable and heinous.”
Brown, who had nine children, was represented by many family members in the courtroom.
Those who spoke on behalf of Ryder asked the judge for mercy while the victim’s family sought justice.
Mike Tibbetts, Brown’s fiance, said their son, Mitch, asks almost every day why his mom is dead.
“I can’t tell him the real reason because it’s too ugly for a 6-year-old boy to understand,” Tibbetts said.
If Ryder had called for help after assaulting Brown, it might have saved her life, Tibbetts said. Central Maine Medical Center was across the street from Ryder’s apartment.
Instead, the fact that Ryder chose to think only of himself by hiding her body in his basement is the worst of the crime, Tibbetts said.
“He seems to have no human compassion for others,” Tibbetts said. “I feel the defendant is a dangerous person and should be treated accordingly.”
Danita Brown’s uncle, Thomas Brown, read a statement from Danita’s Brown’s daughter, Emily, who doesn’t remember meeting her mother.
“Not only has she been taken away from me, but the chance to meet her and to get to know her as my mother has been taken away.” Meeting her mother was something she had looked forward to more than anything else, she wrote.
“All I’m left with are pictures and stories,” she wrote. “I hope she gets the justice she deserves.”
Shortly before imposing her sentence on Ryder, Justice MaryGay Kennedy read excerpts from some of the letters from Brown’s family, including their sleeplessness and nightmares.
“The only thing that is very clear is that Danita Brown told you all how much she loved you all of the time,” Kennedy said to Brown’s assembled family. “Hold on to that. That’s something that can never be taken away from you.”
She added, “This family has clearly been shaken to the core. They have crippling anger and they are forever changed.”
Kennedy said Brown had had a difficult life, suffering encephalitis as a child and, later, plagued by drug addiction.
Ryder, who was hunched in his chair, didn’t react visibly when the judge announced how much time he would serve in prison.
After his release from prison, Ryder must not have contact with his immediate biological family members or prostitutes. He must report to his probation officer any dating or sexual relationships, complete mental health counseling, attend anger management counseling, complete traumatic brain injury evaluation and follow all prescribed treatment. He will be on an 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. curfew and must undergo sex-offender evaluation and comply with the recommendations, Kennedy said.
cwilliams@sunjournal.com
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2013/02/27/lewiston-man-serve-21-years-killing-woman/1326968
Murder defendant appears in court
Christopher Williams, Staff Writer
Lewiston-Auburn | Tuesday, July 19, 2011
AUBURN — A 20-year-old Lewiston man appeared briefly in court Tuesday in connection with the slaying of a New Gloucester woman whose body was found last week buried in the basement under the man’s apartment.
Bob W. Ryder of 417 Main St. denied he violated probation by allegedly killing the woman. A judge continued to hold him at the Androscoggin County Jail pending a hearing at which bail will be discussed. No date had been scheduled by Tuesday afternoon for that hearing.
Ryder was charged Friday on a murder complaint stemming from the discovery of the decomposing remains, found by Maine State Police on Tuesday partially buried in the basement under Ryder’s apartment. Prosecutors are expected to take their case to an Androscoggin County grand jury next month to seek a murder indictment.
The woman, Danita Brown, 38, had been missing for several weeks. In a sworn affidavit written by a police detective, Ryder admitted he hit Brown in the head with a clock and hid her body in the basement. He reportedly had told his Alcoholics Anonymous sponsor about the incident and showed him the body. That sponsor went to police roughly two weeks later.
Ryder appeared Tuesday in court in a bright orange jail suit, his ankles shackled, his hands cuffed in front of him.
Because the charge of murder was formerly a capital offense in Maine, the state can seek to block bail for a murder defendant. The state would first have to prove that there is probable cause to believe that Ryder committed a formerly capital offense, Assistant Attorney General Andrew Benson said.
Second, the state must prove by “clear and convincing evidence” that Ryder is a flight risk, a risk to himself or others or a risk of danger in the community, Benson said.
Justin Leary, Ryder’s attorney, said of his client’s demeanor: “The whole circumstance is weighing very heavily on him.”
Several friends who know Ryder from the 12 Hour Club in Lewiston said the news of the charge was a surprise.
“It’s a shock,” Valerie Barclay said. “He was a happy-go-lucky person. I don’t know what to think of it all.”
Ryder’s attendance at AA meetings had been on the rise over the past couple of months, she said. Two weeks ago, he was at meetings on two consecutive days, she said. “There was never an indication at that time that this person (Brown) was gone already.”
David Williams, a former manager at the 12 Hour Club, said Ryder had worked for him for about seven months.
“He ran the register, cleaned tables and talked to people when they were down and out,” Williams said. ” That’s what we do down there.”
Ryder abruptly quit a couple of months ago. The two would often go to a restaurant before AA meetings. Williams said Ryder talked often about wanting to see his 14-month-old daughter.
A couple of weeks ago, Williams was at a meeting and saw Ryder but didn’t talk to him. He sensed something was wrong.
“I don’t understand it,” he said. “I can’t swallow it. I really can’t.”
http://www.sunjournal.com/city/story/1062178
We know that these organizations are fully aware of numerous cases of abuse and the INCREASED RISK FACTOR due to the high percentage of repeat offenders. Court mandated members are ordered to go by the masses to meetings to comply with the terms of their release. Many of the court mandated people have violent, predatory criminal histories and don’t want to be there! They are only there because they have to get a paper signed or they will be sent back to jail.
12-step loyalists love to say that their meetings are like a microcosm of society, just like going to the grocery store or to church etc. but when you look at how many people are being sent from the courts you realize this is completely untrue! These individuals were under close surveillance in jail right before the drug court let them get out early to attend unsupervised, ANONYMOUS meetings.
If they care about members WHY NOT HAVE SAFETY GUIDELINES, AS OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WHICH ARE FAR LESS DANGEROUS HAVE ?
http://www.ncsisafe.com
“RUDE AWAKENING” IS RIGHT. READ THE FULL ARTICLE IN THE SUN JOURNAL STORY IN GREEN AT THE BOTTOM.
The cover up is being exposed. Watch the Katie Couric episode, (Why Women Drink) and spread the word to others to watch it online.
Have you seen this segment from the Katie Couric show with our dear friend Monica Richardson, creator of THE 13TH STEP : THE FILM ?
Here’s a link to the video ! http://katiecouric.com/videos/why-are-women-drinking-more-than-ever/
Look up the criminal history of some of these violent, mentally ill, repeat offenders that keep avoiding jail over and over again by being sent to non-accountable, unsupervised AA/NA meetings .It’s really no surprise that things like this happen!
Why does it have to take something like this before they get any real jail time? Look up the history of some of our local Daytona Beach AA/NA mandates like RICHARD NEWKIRK and JAMES MAXWELL as well as others to see for yourself!
ANONYMOUS = EXEMPTION FROM ACCOUNTABILITY?
When you read this and the related articles you can understand why it makes no sense for courts to release multitudes of repeat offenders to Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous for mass compliance sessions!
These non-accountable, totally unsupervised groups are run by anonymous, unqualified nonprofessionals who have the enabled, emboldened sense that “ANONYMOUS” somehow means that they are above the law when it comes to police investigations!
CHECK OUT ” RUDE AWAKENING AA/NA STORIES” TO READ PERSONAL ACCOUNTS OF CITIZENS WHO WERE THREATENED BY AA/NA MEMBERS ONLY TO HAVE IT ALL COVERED UP BY THE ORGANIZATION’S CHAIRPERSONS, SPONSORS AND EVEN POLICE!
WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING IN OUR CASE IS THAT THIS IS ALL TAKING PLACE IN OUR PUBLIC PARK/PLAYGROUND WHERE CHILDREN PLAY!
The courts are releasing thousands of dangerous repeat offenders to all get together in AA/NA meetings which have no basic safety guidelines or accountability whatsoever!! READ THE NEWS ARCIVES OF THIS WEBSITE TO UNDERSTAND. Click on this link for starters http://nadaytona.org/2012/01/27/na-member-sentence-to-death-in-petit-connecticut-murders/
In response to, ” localmom’s” recent comment,
I agree it would be nice if the Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous groups in our area believed in cooperating with the police when someone’s life is threatened. PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY HAZARD THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING.
The attitude reflected in this particular article regarding the delusional, emboldened, “ABOVE THE LAW,” feeling of entitlement to obstruct justice and cover up anything to protect the image of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS and NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS is what we have experienced when it comes to threats of violence from their, “so-called anonymous members.” AND THIS IS WHERE THE COURTS SEND FELONS BY THE SCORE FOR PAROLE AND PROBATION COMPLIANCE? HELLO ! ! ? ? It’s more like a gang with the blessings of the legal system to cover up crimes! HOW DOES THIS PROMOTE RESPONSIBLE RECOVERY?
PHIL refused to cooperate with the police in the story “RUDE AWAKENING,” pleading anonymity when one of their members threatened to shoot up the store across the street! When you read this story you can understand that it is normal for these people to obstruct justice and cover for one another. Why would DON AND PHIL, after almost 2 years of problems continue to insist on having meetings in the Park/ Playground instead of giving this park and community a break by finding a more suitable place for their meetings? This is an unnecessary recipe for disaster which has already happened many times to citizens in our Park!
You can read about Phil and how he just smiles as he refuses to help the police in their investigation concerning a violent threat made towards a citizen by their members. By reading comments made by local citizens and the, “RUDE AWAKENING,” along with AA/NA PHOTOS IN PUBLIC PARKS AND CHILDREN’S PLAYGROUNDS you will begin to understand the emboldened, enabled,” above the law” and “beyond reproach” attitude that has become pervasive within these groups! This has become extremely dangerous and is NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THOSE IN RECOVERY!!!
Here is some eye opening additional information in regard to this story about AA/NA covering up crimes. This comment was recently posted in response to the recent lawsuit against AA.
AA/NA knowingly expose their members to extreme danger, yet they refuse to implement any safety procedures!
Safetyfirst on September 30, 2012 at 6:19 PM said:
MURDER IN THE ROOMS
By The Fix.
“What if they confessed to cold-blooded murder? When 20-year-old Bob Ryder came to his sponsor, Floyd Nadeau, with something on his conscience, Nadeau surely had no idea that what he was about to hear would have a lasting impact on both men’s lives.
There have been many high profile cases of murder prosecutions hinging on admissions of guilt coming to light during AA meetings. This one was among the most biizarre.
According to Nadeu, Ryder confessed that he had been getting high with a prostitute at his home in Lewiston, Maine when the prostitute started to “irritate him” by constantly complaining about her tough life. The final straw came when Ryder allegedly caught the woman rifling through his wallet. According to Nadeu, Ryder said that he grabbed the nearest thing to hand—a wooden clock—and viciously beat his victim to death with it before concealing the body in the basement of his home.
Nadeu later told authorities that at first he was highly skeptical that Ryder had murdered anyone. His sponsee, after all, had a history of mental problems, which had led to his being discharged from the marines. But to prove he was telling the truth, Ryder supposedly took Nadeu down into the basement and showed him the decomposing corpse. Still, it would be over two weeks before Nadeu went to the police; when questioned on this seemingly inexplicable delay, Nadeu claimed that he was worried about violating AA’s teachings on confidentiality. ”
Full Story on Murder In The Rooms…..
http://www.thefix.com/content/sick-our-secrets4000
Reply ↓
Are there any AA/NA members who are willing to read this and then tell me what they think about it?
“This is an anonymous program,” the Alcoholics Anonymous member TOLD A POLICE OFFICER who was looking for a murder suspect.” No one’s going to tell you if he’s here or not.”
PLEASE READ THE ABOVE ARTICLE IN IT’S ENTIRETY BY CLICKING ON THE LINK IN GREEN UNDER THE STORY ABOVE.
This is how the AA/NA groups who meet at Holly Hill Florida parks have acted when police have tried to investigate threats made against citizens by AA/NA members!
I’m sure this qualified as a “RUDE AWAKENING” moment for the Lewiston P.D. and everyone else involved ! Be sure to click on the link in blue for the full article to get the real story. When we report harassment and threats from N/A/AA members, that conduct their business in our local park by the playground, the people running the meetings basically tell the police the same thing that this guy did.
Check out ” RUDE AWAKENING” story and feel free to tell your own !
I have been at many meetings where sponsors knew of crimes that had been
committed outside of AA.
But they also where aware of women being raped by AA members and they said it
was an outside issue!
In fact many oldtimers hit on the newcomers and sexually harrass them.
This is the kind of thing that makes me so thankful that our 7th circuit Drug Court Manager, Michael Jewell sees the value in allowing more options which will ultimately help more people succeed in recovery! The state of Florida has changed their wording from mandating attending AA or NA meetings to mandating attending a “support groups”. Volusia and Flagler counties are now accepting SMART RECOVERY as an alternative for those who feel they would like to try a professional recovery option which also offers in-home, online meetings which provide validation for drug court compliance. Other counties within the state will soon follow their lead. Please check out the SMART RECOVERY website link on the right-hand column of the home page, as well as the other options under the {12 step alternatives section.} I think you’ll find them to be refreshingly safe and accountable recovery options.
I find it horrifying that members of AA seem to think that they are above the
law. This is the murder of a mother of 9 that we are talking about. The
police have a duty to find the murderer. AA anonymity does not count for
anything in the event of murder/assault/other crime. I do not know why anyone
thinks that being a member of this ‘fellowship’ leads them to think so, I
really don’t.
This story is a great example on how secretive the
these 12 step programs are.I also read that the guy who finally turned him
in,had seen the body and told the AA murderer to use baking soda to get of the
smell! Also both of them had been cruising for hookers leading up to the
murder.other AA members knew and also kept quiet.